Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
The fumigation chaps will be able to advise.
They usually put a plastic sheet over the top of the heap and tuck it down the sides to seal the gas inside.
Sawtoothed grain beetle
- Thread starter wellingtonfarmer
- Start date
The fumigation chaps will be able to advise.
They usually put a plastic sheet over the top of the heap and tuck it down the sides to seal the gas inside.
Thanks for the replies, got someone coming out to have a look.
Another question, stupid one maybe - can heating in stored grain just be caused by weevil/grain beetle, or is there always additional microbial activity creating the hotspot? ie if you have a hot area, you sort out a bug problem, but say the weather's still fairly mild for cooling the grain, are you still likely to have other unresolved problems? Haven't worded that very well but think you know what Im getting at!
Another question, stupid one maybe - can heating in stored grain just be caused by weevil/grain beetle, or is there always additional microbial activity creating the hotspot? ie if you have a hot area, you sort out a bug problem, but say the weather's still fairly mild for cooling the grain, are you still likely to have other unresolved problems? Haven't worded that very well but think you know what Im getting at!
Woldgrain Storage
Member
- Location
- Hemswell, North Lincs
The insect colony produces heat as it feeds, respires and breeds. This heat then helps the bugs to colonise quicker, as they are more active at higher temperatures.
Fungi, bacteria and moulds in damp grain can also cause hotspots through respiration.
Fungi, bacteria and moulds in damp grain can also cause hotspots through respiration.
Used to fumigate corn , in most cases corn that has not been levelled and has peaks concentrate the heat more and bugs will get a foot hold , keep corn level and cool and it reduces the problem.
I would use command pest control myself
I'm going to state the obvious here. Sorry to be patronising! Prevention is better than cure. Good store hygiene, sealing up rough surfaces, good drying and prompt cooling will help prevent hot spots in the first place.
My main floor store had a history of bug problems related to management, not the fabric of the building. Grain would come off the continuous flow drier at 30-45 oC and be dropped straight onto the concrete floor. The old buried ventilation ducts were long gone - the grates lifted over time and got taken out by grain buckets so we had no post harvest cooling. I invested in pedestals, an extractor fan and a temperature differential controller to control all fans. This runs virtually non stop for the first 3 weeks after filling then for dozens of hours as outside temperatures fall and we reduce the temperature of the bulk. We haven't had a bug problem in 8 years since installing this but it still takes regular monitoring to find hot spots and if necessary put in screw in auger fans if a pedestal isn't nearby. I've got 10 pedestals and 4 fans with 4 probes. We just move them around as needed.
@MattR Look at diatomaceous earth (DE) to help your problem. Ultimately you need to pull cool air through the heap but sprinkling the dust over the surface is a non chemical way of controlling them. The powder is abrasive and the bugs lose their waxy cuticle and dry out which kills them. Other diatomaceous earth products are available. Do wear a dust mask when using this stuff. https://www.interfarm.co.uk%2FDownloadFile.ashx%3FFileId%3D77&usg=AOvVaw3-intw0bFOeXE3FyI3bzXC
In theory you're supposed to declare use of DE on grain passports as consumers don't like the wear on their elevators it causes but it's inert and not a chemical pesticide. What is your policy on DE products @Woldgrain Storage ?
My main floor store had a history of bug problems related to management, not the fabric of the building. Grain would come off the continuous flow drier at 30-45 oC and be dropped straight onto the concrete floor. The old buried ventilation ducts were long gone - the grates lifted over time and got taken out by grain buckets so we had no post harvest cooling. I invested in pedestals, an extractor fan and a temperature differential controller to control all fans. This runs virtually non stop for the first 3 weeks after filling then for dozens of hours as outside temperatures fall and we reduce the temperature of the bulk. We haven't had a bug problem in 8 years since installing this but it still takes regular monitoring to find hot spots and if necessary put in screw in auger fans if a pedestal isn't nearby. I've got 10 pedestals and 4 fans with 4 probes. We just move them around as needed.
@MattR Look at diatomaceous earth (DE) to help your problem. Ultimately you need to pull cool air through the heap but sprinkling the dust over the surface is a non chemical way of controlling them. The powder is abrasive and the bugs lose their waxy cuticle and dry out which kills them. Other diatomaceous earth products are available. Do wear a dust mask when using this stuff. https://www.interfarm.co.uk%2FDownloadFile.ashx%3FFileId%3D77&usg=AOvVaw3-intw0bFOeXE3FyI3bzXC
In theory you're supposed to declare use of DE on grain passports as consumers don't like the wear on their elevators it causes but it's inert and not a chemical pesticide. What is your policy on DE products @Woldgrain Storage ?
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Perfectly valid question.
Usually, heat is caused by bugs and once they are dead it isn't really an issue and will dissipate. I was worried about the heat first time around, but now never give it another thought.
One thing however - make sure you take the sheet off after the date given. Grain still needs to breathe and the sheet would stop it happening and create moisture and more troubles.
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
The sheet should be taken off by the people doing the gassing never yourself , I do know of a gang that just turn up , gas it and that’s it , funny enough they uncut our price as we went back took off the sheet and disposed of all remaining powder from pellets etc , they have to do this before issuing the clearance form.
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Thank you. Could be the same firm I have used previously then.....
I have had a mate take off the sheet to start loading on their day so , didn’t want to come back , and he felt bad for days after.
Secondly the gas should be in either a belt or some kind of pillow case type carrier so when taken away all dust goes with it.
unfortunately farmers being farmers ,’we are farmers too , sometimes go with the cheapest quote!
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
When I did it I was careful to open the shed doors (50% of front of shed) wide open. and pull the sheet from ground level in front the heap straight out into the yard so any "gas" left would hopefully be escaping from the back of the heap, not the front. I certainly wouldn't want to climb on top the heap and roll the sheet back as such.
Yes, the pellets were in a sock type thing IIRC.
dannewhouse
Member
- Location
- huddersfield
how much will I be looking at to fumigate a store 30ft x 30ft probably average 2.5m? its 2m right up to a point.
done as before, k orbital with knapsack, smoke bomb doors shut leave for a day sweep out.
but due to this years high yield, I blew grain in to form a high heap instead of pushing up with tractor bucket. < this has caused my problem!!
moisture around 12-14% never had a problem before straight off combine.
the cyclone on the blower has thrown the grain out wide and every bit of chaff has concentrated in the centre of the heap resulting in it warming up thus beetles. I cant control it with a grain speere and have little room to move grain with an auger. im going to start using out of this store with an auger fetching the affected grain 1st. (I run it through a cleaner above roller mill any way) was a good sample but it has concentrated the chaff.
block walls with metal sheets above fibre cement roof.
do you think I will sort my own problem if I get the warming part used quickly, or is the fumigation cost worth every penny, whatever this may be?
done as before, k orbital with knapsack, smoke bomb doors shut leave for a day sweep out.
but due to this years high yield, I blew grain in to form a high heap instead of pushing up with tractor bucket. < this has caused my problem!!
moisture around 12-14% never had a problem before straight off combine.
the cyclone on the blower has thrown the grain out wide and every bit of chaff has concentrated in the centre of the heap resulting in it warming up thus beetles. I cant control it with a grain speere and have little room to move grain with an auger. im going to start using out of this store with an auger fetching the affected grain 1st. (I run it through a cleaner above roller mill any way) was a good sample but it has concentrated the chaff.
block walls with metal sheets above fibre cement roof.
do you think I will sort my own problem if I get the warming part used quickly, or is the fumigation cost worth every penny, whatever this may be?
Pre harvest, clean it down, K Obiol then smoke bomb. Leave for at least a week, 3+ weeks is better still. Clean the shed properly when you empty each bay then the bugs have less to live on. I was surprised about the chaff in the centre of the heap - I've found chaff floats to the outside edge when filling from the centre. Good aspiration as it goes over the cleaner will draw most of the bugs away but I'd seriously consider treating the heap unless you can get it all away very soon. Are you selling it or gradually using it yourself?
Can you seal the block walls in future with paint or resin (all RT approved materials of course)? Just thinking of giving less hiding places for the bugs.
Can you seal the block walls in future with paint or resin (all RT approved materials of course)? Just thinking of giving less hiding places for the bugs.
Woldgrain Storage
Member
- Location
- Hemswell, North Lincs
Cannot over-emphasise the importance of cooling grain ASAP after harvest. Don't wait for frost. The AHDB have a safe storage calculator for bugs.
We've never used DE in store and I've never seen an intake passport declaring it.
All our intake is pre-cleaned with an aspirator, which would remove any DE dust.
I've only ever seen it done on silos, years ago, where the pellets were put in a paper feed bag, then put in the ducting between the fan and the silo.
The pellets then react with the moisture in the atmosphere to release the gas which is very thin and goes everywhere, so it is vital to have a good seal.
The contractor will return in 3 weeks and vent the heap. Don't be in a rush to load it out.
The gas has a very distinctive smell and is incredibly toxic to vertebrates and invertebrates alike, so don't be tempted to fiddle with the sheet on the heap.
The contractor told me it is basically exactly the same compound that was used on the Western Front in 1915.
dannewhouse
Member
- Location
- huddersfield
I'm only using 11ton every 3 weeks so the answer is no I can't shift it quick, I'm hoping 1/2 rollings will have take the bad out of the middle.
I thought I was "doing it properly" using the cyclone as appose to 90 bend but that would have blown the light stuff away rather than the cyclone spinning the heavier out wide allowing lights to settle in centre. Learning curve! (It's better with cyclone in tower as no chaff to stick to sides)
The walls were painted with some sort of black stuff years ago by my grandad, this store only has a couple years of grain use left anyway.
How much £££ will I be looking at?
I thought I was "doing it properly" using the cyclone as appose to 90 bend but that would have blown the light stuff away rather than the cyclone spinning the heavier out wide allowing lights to settle in centre. Learning curve! (It's better with cyclone in tower as no chaff to stick to sides)
The walls were painted with some sort of black stuff years ago by my grandad, this store only has a couple years of grain use left anyway.
How much £££ will I be looking at?
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