Self regulating FA scheme

[Right-arm fast]

Farm assurance scheme bodies seem to be milking the job for all its worth and they are unnecessarily inspecting farms each year which is why they feel the need to create new rules most years, to keep themselves in a job.
There's no choice now if you want want to find an alternative scheme if you think you would like a change so why don't we all get together to regulate ourselves with spot inspections from an outside body on a small percentage of farms a year which can look back over the farm records from the previous 3 years. We can fill out the forms online as the current assessors do, scanning in any relevant documents for the records. Just need someone to set it all up on line to store records and take membership details and subs.
Our farming practice hasn't changed much over the last decade, I should think others will be in a similar situation so why do we need to be inspected every year nothing much ever changes that much really in a 12 month period........

 

[Bald Rick]

Good idea but the buyers won’t go for it. Doubt they’ll want anything that’s self regulatory

 

[teslacoils]

Tbh there is no reason that the arable red tractor could be made much easier with an app that I could upload sprayer tests etc at the moment they are done. Ditto spray recs etc. Avoids the night before Scrabble for bits of paper.

 

[Right-arm fast]

Tbh there is no reason that the arable red tractor could be made much easier with an app that I could upload sprayer tests etc at the moment they are done. Ditto spray recs etc. Avoids the night before Scrabble for bits of paper.

Would you not be in favour of self regulation do you mean? Not quite following.

 

[Right-arm fast]

Good idea but the buyers won’t go for it. Doubt they’ll want anything that’s self regulatory

Well that would show a bit of mis-trust on the buyers part imo. Is it guilty until proven innocent, or innocent until proven guilty? We are assumed to be breaking rules until proved otherwise?

 

[teslacoils]

Sorry, there was another post that has vanished into the ether. No, we can't self regulate. We need that barrier. Suppose a farmer organisation could do it, but they would a) sell out at the sniff of a quick buck or b) essentially know tow to the super markets.

Simplify current system. Keep costs the same. Use surplus to ensure imports meet the same standards.

 

[Clive]

so why don't we all get together

the unfortunate flaw in your plan above!


I've given up on farmers actually ever doing this, "divide and conquer" and no industry has been better divided than UK agriculture...................... purposely so

 

[som farmer]

really good idea, but, alas it will never happen, to much vested interested to allow it.
I was really p'd off last year, passed usual crap, in the summer, had a visit mid winter - to see cows in cubicles, as they were out at grass, last assessment, £75, thankyou.
Reality is as farms are sold, merged etc, the result is fewer farms to interrorgate, so more and more 'laws' have to be created, for them to keep their jobs, We passed our last visit, cows were out, so it remains to be seen if they come when cows are in, if they do, it would mean an extra visit, not a follow up to check up on work done, so, who is to pay ? Our milk buyer pays for a visit, but not for a follow up, this needs watching, they may well be thinking more visits = more money. And before any one thinks it, we are up to date, with all records, and only have minor bits to do, work on principle, they have to find something, so we are not a a 'high risk farm'.

 

[Right-arm fast]

the unfortunate flaw in your plan above!


I've given up on farmers actually ever doing this, "divide and conquer" and no industry has been better divided than UK agriculture...................... purposely so

I was hoping you might offer to set it up with your forum/website experience. Would need a good advertising campaign to get the feedback so we can act as a very large single industry with many members. The FA self regulation would have to be non profit making to be seen to be impartial.
The Internet is a very powerful tool with social media etc which has only just got going in recent times. It worries governments!

 

[Clive]

I was hoping you might offer to set it up with your forum/website experience. Would need a good advertising campaign to get the feedback so we can act as a very large single industry with many members. The FA self regulation would have to be non profit making to be seen to be impartial.
The Internet is a very powerful tool with social media etc which has only just got going in recent times. It worries governments!

I've lost count of the things I've been asked to set up or help with and whenever we have done (often at personal cost re time and resource) it's mostly met with criticism, a rather thankless and ultimately pointless task, so please excuse my skepticism and frustration here!

trouble is no one is paying me to do this, I'm not a one man band NFU alternative, some sort of farming charity or wealthy farming philanthropist, I have a farm and other business to run to try to provide an income for my family, etc ................not easy as you all know and very much a full-time job


The internet and social media are indeed a very powerful tool and beyond doubt have the potential to change many things for farmers but everyone wants everything for free whilst happily continuing to pay others that are apparently ineffective ?? ..................................... can anyone explain to me why this is?

I reckon I could absolutely transform many things about this industry for the better-given chance / oppertunity but frankly its just not my job/remit


your idea is sound, its something I have investigated already and perfectly possible but don't underestimate just how much time and money is involved if you are going to take on such projects and compete with well established and well-backed alternatives

 

[Right-arm fast]

I've lost count of the things I've been asked to set up or help with and whenever we have done (often at personal cost re time and resource) it's mostly met with criticism, a rather thankless and ultimately pointless task, so please excuse my skepticism and frustration here!

trouble is no one is paying me to do this, I'm not a one man band NFU alternative, some sort of farming charity or wealthy farming philanthropist, I have a farm and other business to run to try to provide an income for my family, etc ................not easy as you all know and very much a full-time job


The internet and social media are indeed a very powerful tool and beyond doubt have the potential to change many things for farmers but everyone wants everything for free whilst happily continuing to pay others that are apparently ineffective ?? ..................................... can anyone explain to me why this is?

I reckon I could absolutely transform many things about this industry for the better-given chance / oppertunity but frankly its just not my job/remit


your idea is sound, its something I have investigated already and perfectly possible but don't underestimate just how much time and money is involved if you are going to take on such projects and compete with well established and well-backed alternatives

My comment about you taking it on was a bit tongue in cheek. Wouldn't ask anybody to do anything for no return and I fully understand.

 

[rob1]

the unfortunate flaw in your plan above!


I've given up on farmers actually ever doing this, "divide and conquer" and no industry has been better divided than UK agriculture...................... purposely so

I agree, but then you dont like central storage because you think you can do better on your own, nuff said

 

[Clive]

I agree, but then you dont like central storage because you think you can do better on your own, nuff said

Very odd example? absolutely no idea what it might have to do with ideas like changes to assurance or industry representation at all?

I won't get drawn into that debate, however, I've said all I want to on the subject, how others choose to spend their money securing assets is up to them as it is to me as well. If it works for some of them great, if what I do works for me then also great!

 

[Clive]

My comment about you taking it on was a bit tongue in cheek. Wouldn't ask anybody to do anything for no return and I fully understand.

no matter who takes it's on there has to be "someone" and all these great ideas involve a LOT of time, skill and therefore money to actually make happen

Our energy would be far better and more realistically used holding those that we already pay to do these things to account! forcing them to up their game to a level we rightly expect for the cash


How ?


Money !! you all provide them with the means to exist, remove the money and if enough others do as well and they will have to start listening to you eventually and become what they should be

In the case of Red tractor, we can't stop paying as we all know its a blackmail scheme that most of us have no choice but to be part of. The route to change them is via the NFU who despite not liking to admit it owns a big % of RT and whose president sits on their board - They created the monster so it's down to them to sort out the mess it has become. RT is the primary reason I canceled my NFU membership and I urge others to do the same UNTIL they do something about it

 

[rob1]

Very odd example? absolutely no idea what it might have to do with ideas like changes to assurance or industry representation at all?

I won't get drawn into that debate, however, I've said all I want to on the subject, how others choose to spend their money securing assets is up to them as it is to me as well. If it works for some of them great, if what I do works for me then also great!

why is it an odd example? its a perfect example, just as dairy co ops are , some farmers will join together to purchase and or sell, some wont, you said IIRC that you despair of farmers working together , both of the aforementioned are examples where we would be better off if we ALL stuck together instead of thinking we can do better as individuals, the issue is that while farmers often farm for the long term they often look at today in their business setups.

 

[Clive]

why is it an odd example? its a perfect example, just as dairy co ops are , some farmers will join together to purchase and or sell, some wont, you said IIRC that you despair of farmers working together , both of the aforementioned are examples where we would be better off if we ALL stuck together instead of thinking we can do better as individuals, the issue is that while farmers often farm for the long term they often look at today in their business setups.

it IS an odd example

my choice to build my own shed rather than rent space in another has nothing to do with how UK assurance or agricultural lobbying should be done .................. not one bit................... whatsoever ................etc

We are talking about industry owned and shared assurance/representation NOT if sharing of assets is a good idea

Please don't try to turn this thread into another "done to death" building your own stores - it has nothing to do with the opening topic which is farm assurance

 

[davidroberts30]

Farm assurance scheme bodies seem to be milking the job for all its worth and they are unnecessarily inspecting farms each year which is why they feel the need to create new rules most years, to keep themselves in a job.
There's no choice now if you want want to find an alternative scheme if you think you would like a change so why don't we all get together to regulate ourselves with spot inspections from an outside body on a small percentage of farms a year which can look back over the farm records from the previous 3 years. We can fill out the forms online as the current assessors do, scanning in any relevant documents for the records. Just need someone to set it all up on line to store records and take membership details and subs.
Our farming practice hasn't changed much over the last decade, I should think others will be in a similar situation so why do we need to be inspected every year nothing much ever changes that much really in a 12 month period........

crap innit
i get a audit from all the slaughterhouses I sell to (4)
but I still cant sell to them unless im FA
I also get a animal health check from local council
but I cant sell stock on unless im farm assured

 

[Right-arm fast]

no matter who takes it's on there has to be "someone" and all these great ideas involve a LOT of time, skill and therefore money to actually make happen

Our energy would be far better and more realistically used holding those that we already pay to do these things to account! forcing them to up their game to a level we rightly expect for the cash


How ?


Money !! you all provide them with the means to exist, remove the money and if enough others do as well and they will have to start listening to you eventually and become what they should be

In the case of Red tractor, we can't stop paying as we all know its a blackmail scheme that most of us have no choice but to be part of. The route to change them is via the NFU who despite not liking to admit it owns a big % of RT and whose president sits on their board - They created the monster so it's down to them to sort out the mess it has become. RT is the primary reason I canceled my NFU membership and I urge others to do the same UNTIL they do something about it

I honestly didn't know the NFU were that involved, but I can't say it's a huge surprise. So is our own Union helping to make business more difficult and unnecessarily onerous or is it in there to fight our corner, cos they ain't doing much to help by the sounds of it . ?