Senator 60 combine advice

[tamarisk]

I've been keeping this beast ticking over for years now with lots of tlc and continuous repairs. This time it seems that the main cross shaft has moved about 10mm to the right so that all the belts are slightly misaligned, and particularly the innermost one which drives the shaker trays and the straw walkers now rubs the main frame so has burned out and jumped off. Any one experience of this and ideas on how to push it back? What holds it in place anyway? It looks like there may be a collar with a grub screw on the left side but nothing to be seen on the other side. There are a lot of pulleys to try to remove - 3 variable speed splits plus others - and nothing clear at the ends to hit to try to drive it back if that was a way. Any suggestions welcome.

 

[carbonfibre farmer]

@New Puritan
@bobk

 

[Barleymow]

On a senator 85 we had a new shaft and tube it sits in ,quite a big job

 

[Gapples]

On a senator 85 we had a new shaft and tube it sits in ,quite a big job

I used to work on them years ago, changed a few of those cross shafts, it's a daunting task I can tell you, certainly not for the faint hearted.

 

[tamarisk]

I used to work on them years ago, changed a few of those cross shafts, it's a daunting task I can tell you, certainly not for the faint hearted.

So I've taken all the belts off and cleaned it up and now I can see that the main shaft probably hasn't moved after all. What has happened is that the whole block of pulleys which drive the threshing mechanisms - 2 variable speeds to the drum, drives to the fan, shaker sieves and straw walkers and the drive from the engine above - have all moved on the main shaft. And there is play there of a few mm between the sleeve and the shaft which I assume is a bearing worn or broken. Do you know how the whole arrangement is held in place on the shaft. There is also a grub screw on the outer sleeve of the outside/moving half of the variable speed pulley whose function I cannot see yet, and what might be a circlip limiting the movement of this sleeve.

I've attached some photos.

Any idea where to find a blow up diagram?

 

[bobk]

So I've taken all the belts off and cleaned it up and now I can see that the main shaft probably hasn't moved after all. What has happened is that the whole block of pulleys which drive the threshing mechanisms - 2 variable speeds to the drum, drives to the fan, shaker sieves and straw walkers and the drive from the engine above - have all moved on the main shaft. And there is play there of a few mm between the sleeve and the shaft which I assume is a bearing worn or broken. Do you know how the whole arrangement is held in place on the shaft. There is also a grub screw on the outer sleeve of the outside/moving half of the variable speed pulley whose function I cannot see yet, and what might be a circlip limiting the movement of this sleeve.

I've attached some photos.

Any idea where to find a blow up diagram?

i've got the shaft , if that's any use

 

[bobk]

So I've taken all the belts off and cleaned it up and now I can see that the main shaft probably hasn't moved after all. What has happened is that the whole block of pulleys which drive the threshing mechanisms - 2 variable speeds to the drum, drives to the fan, shaker sieves and straw walkers and the drive from the engine above - have all moved on the main shaft. And there is play there of a few mm between the sleeve and the shaft which I assume is a bearing worn or broken. Do you know how the whole arrangement is held in place on the shaft. There is also a grub screw on the outer sleeve of the outside/moving half of the variable speed pulley whose function I cannot see yet, and what might be a circlip limiting the movement of this sleeve.

I've attached some photos.

Any idea where to find a blow up diagram?

The bearings hold it in iirc , one has gone so the shaft has slipped

 

[Gapples]

So I've taken all the belts off and cleaned it up and now I can see that the main shaft probably hasn't moved after all. What has happened is that the whole block of pulleys which drive the threshing mechanisms - 2 variable speeds to the drum, drives to the fan, shaker sieves and straw walkers and the drive from the engine above - have all moved on the main shaft. And there is play there of a few mm between the sleeve and the shaft which I assume is a bearing worn or broken. Do you know how the whole arrangement is held in place on the shaft. There is also a grub screw on the outer sleeve of the outside/moving half of the variable speed pulley whose function I cannot see yet, and what might be a circlip limiting the movement of this sleeve.

I've attached some photos.

Any idea where to find a blow up diagram?

Hi
Please bear with me, it's got to be 35 years since I did a Senator main shaft.
You are going to need a service manual or parts manual from somewhere to get diagrams.
They obviously strip out from the outside, get that big pulley off on the outside, then move onto the hydraulic rams, they'll come off.
The drum drive pulleys are held in on with Gibb head keys.
Once all the pulleys are off the LHS you take off the RHS varistor pulley, I'm sure the bolt holding that on is left hand thread
The bearing on the RHS comes complete with the shaft.

 

[New Puritan]

Be careful with the variable speed pulleys. They're spring loaded, so will come apart with a lot of pent up force if done wrongly.

I only know that because people warned me when I had Senator trouble last year.

 

[New Puritan]

@tamarisk - this is the thread I started a while back on the Senator I use, prob. not much help with your specific issue but covers the warnings about the spring loaded part: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/claas-senator-freeing-up-a-blockage.247800/

 

[Exfarmer]

Yes people have been killed taking those variator pulleys apart if not done properly

 

[Gapples]

Be careful with the variable speed pulleys. They're spring loaded, so will come apart with a lot of pent up force if done wrongly.

I only know that because people warned me when I had Senator trouble last year.

Absolutely right, the spring loaded pulley on the Senator is at the front, on the drum shaft, in this instance, stripping down the main shaft, it will not be a problem.
Whoever is doing the job will though have to beg steal or borrow tools to open up those spring loaded pulleys to get the belts off so they can still be finger nippers !

 

[tamarisk]

Thanks for the warning guys. I've got the belts off and so no need to do anything more with the front drum pulleys with the mighty spring. I found that a wooden wedge driven in was enough to just take the pressure off the belts to get them out ok once the back ones were open.

Gapples I appreciate you dredging your memory - the big outside pulley is held with a gib key and a roll pin so that's the first challenge. My photo is a bit poor but you can just see the grub screw on the moving sleeve of the LHS varistor - any idea what it is holding? Unfortunately it has been chewed up by a previous owner so I'm going to have to try to get a stud extractor onto it. As I write this I've just had a lightening moment - is it more likely a broken grease nipple?

bobk you suggest the inner sleeve is held in place by the bearings? Do you think that if I can get a puller on the whole lot it'll come off or will there be something to remove first?

I might see more when the outer pulley is off.

 

[Gapples]

Thanks for the warning guys. I've got the belts off and so no need to do anything more with the front drum pulleys with the mighty spring. I found that a wooden wedge driven in was enough to just take the pressure off the belts to get them out ok once the back ones were open.

Gapples I appreciate you dredging your memory - the big outside pulley is held with a gib key and a roll pin so that's the first challenge. My photo is a bit poor but you can just see the grub screw on the moving sleeve of the LHS varistor - any idea what it is holding? Unfortunately it has been chewed up by a previous owner so I'm going to have to try to get a stud extractor onto it. As I write this I've just had a lightening moment - is it more likely a broken grease nipple?

bobk you suggest the inner sleeve is held in place by the bearings? Do you think that if I can get a puller on the whole lot it'll come off or will there be something to remove first?

I might see more when the outer pulley is off.

It will all become much clearer once you've got the outer pulley off & the hydraulic rams.
It probably is a grease nipple broken off, I can't remember a grub screw in there holding anything.
I was thinking Gibb head keys.
Once you've got that outer pulley off keep posting photos.

 

[tamarisk]

It will all become much clearer once you've got the outer pulley off & the hydraulic rams.
It probably is a grease nipple broken off, I can't remember a grub screw in there holding anything.
I was thinking Gibb head keys.
Once you've got that outer pulley off keep posting photos.

The gibb key gave up after quite a fight! I was scared the head was going to snap off so I welded a chunky piece of scrap to it which gave purchase for a lot of leverage both sides together and it finally pulled out. Roll pin easy to punch out and the pulley just slid off.

I've posted new photos, unfortunately not completely obvious still.View attachment Combine rear shaft 8.20.pdf I'm guessing that there must be a circlip on the combine side of the pulleys to stop it moving too far, and maybe nothing on the outside end as the thrust from the hydraulic rams on the variable pulley will push against it? If so I should be able to "just" pull the whole caboodle off on mass? Something also stops the outer sleeve rotating on the inner sleeve, and stopping it coming right off it, although if I'm right I don't need to move it anyway. Any ideas?

 

[Gapples]

The gibb key gave up after quite a fight! I was scared the head was going to snap off so I welded a chunky piece of scrap to it which gave purchase for a lot of leverage both sides together and it finally pulled out. Roll pin easy to punch out and the pulley just slid off.

I've posted new photos, unfortunately not completely obvious still.View attachment Combine rear shaft 8.20.pdf I'm guessing that there must be a circlip on the combine side of the pulleys to stop it moving too far, and maybe nothing on the outside end as the thrust from the hydraulic rams on the variable pulley will push against it? If so I should be able to "just" pull the whole caboodle off on mass? Something also stops the outer sleeve rotating on the inner sleeve, and stopping it coming right off it, although if I'm right I don't need to move it anyway. Any ideas?

Hi good photos
I wish I could remember a lot more clearly than I do !
That piece with the 2 roll pins that the little hydraulic rams locate on obviously comes off somehow, I'm thinking there's a thrust bearing behind there ?

I'll ask around a few contacts ... See if I can find a service manual, it's so frustrating as I had one myself that I'm sure I left at work or give to someone years ago when packed in doing ag engineering.

 

[tamarisk]

Hi good photos
I wish I could remember a lot more clearly than I do !
That piece with the 2 roll pins that the little hydraulic rams locate on obviously comes off somehow, I'm thinking there's a thrust bearing behind there ?

I'll ask around a few contacts ... See if I can find a service manual, it's so frustrating as I had one myself that I'm sure I left at work or give to someone years ago when packed in doing ag engineering.

There is a thrust bearing there (looks to be held by the circlip) but thats all part of the outer sleeve of the varister pulley and I'm hoping that I don't need to take all that apart as the bearing to replace is in the inner sleeve - unless it all obscures something which holds it in place.

 

[Gapples]

There is a thrust bearing there (looks to be held by the circlip) but thats all part of the outer sleeve of the varister pulley and I'm hoping that I don't need to take all that apart as the bearing to replace is in the inner sleeve - unless it all obscures something which holds it in place.

I've asked around & I'm hopefully getting some photos from a repair manual shortly

 

[Gapples]

There is a thrust bearing there (looks to be held by the circlip) but thats all part of the outer sleeve of the varister pulley and I'm hoping that I don't need to take all that apart as the bearing to replace is in the inner sleeve - unless it all obscures something which holds it in place.

PS

Can I just ask, is the bearing on the LHS knackered, the one on the LHS hull ?
Because IF that main shaft has to come out your going to need the ground drive pulley off in the RHS as well.
Now I'm pretty sure the locating bolt on that is a left hand thread, the pulley also goes onto a taper on the shaft & it's usually tight as ####
You will need very good pullers to get it off.

 

[tamarisk]

PS

Can I just ask, is the bearing on the LHS knackered, the one on the LHS hull ?
Because IF that main shaft has to come out your going to need the ground drive pulley off in the RHS as well.
Now I'm pretty sure the locating bolt on that is a left hand thread, the pulley also goes onto a taper on the shaft & it's usually tight as ####
You will need very good pullers to get it off.

The LHS bearing on the main shaft does not appear to be a problem, so at present I don't see a need to move the main shaft. The problem looks to be the outermost bearing on the LHS of that shaft holding the sleeve with all the pulleys on it.

Look forward to some pics from the manual if you do manage to get hold of it.