SFI 24 no till payment

[B'o'B]

My money is on £24 per annum..agreed🫰

I’ll put £50 (or an amount of your choice) to charity on it being £73/ha/year.

 

[yellow belly]

I’ll put £50 (or an amount of your choice) to charity on it being £73/ha/year.

Insider trading

 

[Huno]

Insider trading

After 6 months of rain hammering the clay cap soil into concrete you can keep that £73 for this year for spring crop establishment. Slotting no till spring grain into concrete followed by the spring drought that has arrived is not worth 0.5 tonnes of yield penalty offered by SFI or £50 to charity... p.s.this was after cover crops, limited trafficing and 7 yrs of No Till...

 

[DrWazzock]

After 6 months of rain hammering the clay cap soil into concrete you can keep that £73 for this year for spring crop establishment. Slotting no till spring grain into concrete followed by the spring drought that has arrived is not worth 0.5 tonnes of yield penalty offered by SFI or £50 to charity... p.s.this was after cover crops, limited trafficing and 7 yrs of No Till...

Yeah, looks different in the field than imagined from an armchair.

 

[4course]

Yeah, looks different in the field than imagined from an armchair.

Combi drilled beans in on a failed osr that was ploughed after muck worked a bit with a tine and disc in front of drill not perfect but its in without smearing my dd pal is ferucked and another who has ploughed is getting away fine similar soils and situation , with over half of our sp barley and beans in Even son has said good job we didnt dd ,top work or whatever im going to take that as almost a vindication of my old fashioned ways with the plough . mindst still got to keep an open mind as surely we are unlikely to see as much wet as this last autumn winter and spring in my time again .

 

[Grass And Grain]

If you have say 33% spring cropping, with a start date of 1st March, and intend to DD that spring cropped area, but not the other 66%, could you cultivate (could be plough and combi, or Sumo trio) and then drill a cover crop in July, then DD your spring crop into the cover, and clam the DD payment on 33% of your land?

 

[Billboy1]

If you have say 33% spring cropping, with a start date of 1st March, and intend to DD that spring cropped area, but not the other 66%, could you cultivate (could be plough and combi, or Sumo trio) and then drill a cover crop in July, then DD your spring crop and clam the DD payment on 33% of your land?

no idea how there going to do it !

 

[Flatland guy]

Basically I think they are still trying to work out what it means themselves. Here in Lincolnshire you could just lightly disc drill a crop after potatoes, onions or daffodil/tulips bulbs (especially if lifted dry in July/Aug/early Sept)and all the land would be lifted and soil moved from the harvest of the previous crop. But if inspector came immediately after drilling they would possibly argue that you could you have done a full deep till regime and no one would know any different. I think a lot get hung up that No Till is only for all combinable farms and they are many crops out there that within rotation may have problems for inspectors if that farm chooses options from SFI, or will they just limit No Till to combinable only farms?

 

[Hindsight]

Basically I think they are still trying to work out what it means themselves. Here in Lincolnshire you could just lightly disc drill a crop after potatoes, onions or daffodil/tulips bulbs (especially if lifted dry in July/Aug/early Sept)and all the land would be lifted and soil moved from the harvest of the previous crop. But if inspector came immediately after drilling they would possibly argue that you could you have done a full deep till regime and no one would know any different. I think a lot get hung up that No Till is only for all combinable farms and they are many crops out there that within rotation may have problems for inspectors if that farm chooses options from SFI, or will they just limit No Till to combinable only farms?

I would say defining No Till for purposes of farmer and inspector understanding is straightforward! No Tillage!! But that is not what farmers will want nor telling Defra. So Janet's team if tasked to be farmer friendly will be wrapping themselves up in knots trying to write a 'loosely' worded prescription that means all things to all men, as everyone will want a bit of that cake at £78 ha. Anyway there won't be enough cash when the folk on here get into that trough. And so somehow uptake will have to be limited, I guess.

 

[B'o'B]

If you have say 33% spring cropping, with a start date of 1st March, and intend to DD that spring cropped area, but not the other 66%, could you cultivate (could be plough and combi, or Sumo trio) and then drill a cover crop in July, then DD your spring crop into the cover, and clam the DD payment on 33% of your land?

It will be a static option, not rotational.

No "conventional or shallow min-till" equipment to be used between haversting one crop and sowing the next.

So no I don't think you will be allowed to do that.

 

[Huno]

It will be a static option, not rotational.

No "conventional or shallow min-till" equipment to be used between haversting one crop and sowing the next.

So no I don't think you will be allowed to do that.

Also there is no point in wasting time doing No Till for less than 5 yrs as it takes that long to change the soil biology to make a difference.. even a 3yr option is a pointless waste of money from a soil scientists perspective.. Back to school DEFRA!!

 

[Hindsight]

Also there is no point in wasting time doing No Till for less than 5 yrs as it takes that long to change the soil biology to make a difference.. even a 3yr option is a pointless waste of money from a soil scientists perspective.. Back to school DEFRA!!

No, not back to school Huno. SFI is about encouraging and rewarding behavioral change. So a three year payment for No Tillage to you seems to short a period. But to a policy maker that three years may be long enough to sow and germinate that behavioral change that is then adopted. Thus the payment is worthwhile. But what we see through posts on here is posters with no real intention of adopting a true no till practice but some sort of cultivations with the odd year with little or no tillage and for that expect to pick up £78 hectare.

 

[redsloe]

If you have say 33% spring cropping, with a start date of 1st March, and intend to DD that spring cropped area, but not the other 66%, could you cultivate (could be plough and combi, or Sumo trio) and then drill a cover crop in July, then DD your spring crop into the cover, and clam the DD payment on 33% of your land?

Not sure why you would decide to cultivate before a cover crop and then DD for a spring crop?

 

[Badshot]

There was mention on an SFI webinar that low disturbance subsoiling where appropriate would be allowed, then drill direct into that.

I presume it will be a case of the same drill requirements as the grants, no cultivation element unless it's applying fertilizer.

We are all waiting with baited breath for the details.

 

[Badshot]

Oh, and have photographic evidence of it happening I guess.

 

[Hindsight]

There was mention on an SFI webinar that low disturbance subsoiling where appropriate would be allowed, then drill direct into that.

I presume it will be a case of the same drill requirements as the grants, no cultivation element unless it's applying fertilizer.

We are all waiting with baited breath for the details.

I would love to be in the bowels of Nobel House at the focus group meetings and with the external 'agricultural' consultants advising the Defra 'team' most of who posibly studied English Lit at Cambridge or Interntional Relations at Bath and find themselves in the Defra policy lead team on their career in the Civil Service. Next stop Department of Transport or maybe the duff un Health. Hey ho.

 

[Huno]

No, not back to school Huno. SFI is about encouraging and rewarding behavioral change. So a three year payment for No Tillage to you seems to short a period. But to a policy maker that three years may be long enough to sow and germinate that behavioral change that is then adopted. Thus the payment is worthwhile. But what we see through posts on here is posters with no real intention of adopting a true no till practice but some sort of cultivations with the odd year with little or no tillage and for that expect to pick up £78 hectare.

Therefore back to school because the aims will not be achieved.. 3 years of no tillage is pointless.. by year 3 most give up as yields dip.. i am happy to teach you too??

 

[Huno]

I would love to be in the bowels of Nobel House at the focus group meetings and with the external 'agricultural' consultants advising the Defra 'team' most of who posibly studied English Lit at Cambridge or Interntional Relations at Bath and find themselves in the Defra policy lead team on their career in the Civil Service. Next stop Department of Transport or maybe the duff un Health. Hey ho.

I could think of no where in the world that is more soul destroying and boring than being in a Gov office but each to their own... i would love a summary of what those consultants spout in there however... and give it to the Daily Mail to publish...

 

[Hindsight]

Therefore back to school because the aims will not be achieved.. 3 years of no tillage is pointless.. by year 3 most give up as yields dip.. i am happy to teach you too??

Maybe. But that is not the point. Government policy is cultivating soil is bad. And thus any action that encourage change is good, as far as government is concerned. While as someone wo presumably has been on the journey you are being too literal Huno.

 

[delilah]

I would say defining No Till for purposes of farmer and inspector understanding is straightforward! No Tillage!! But that is not what farmers will want nor telling Defra. So Janet's team if tasked to be farmer friendly will be wrapping themselves up in knots trying to write a 'loosely' worded prescription that means all things to all men, as everyone will want a bit of that cake at £78 ha. Anyway there won't be enough cash when the folk on here get into that trough. And so somehow uptake will have to be limited, I guess.

Do we know categorically that it is still 'Janet's team' ? Or has the baton been passed ? Just wondering who to write to to tell them it's not too late to pull the plug on this standard, or at least add it to the list of standards that can only be 25% of the land.