Sfp

[nelly55]

If someone owns land but don’t actively farm can they claim Sfp.

 

[yellow belly]

If someone owns land but don’t actively farm can they claim Sfp.

They can Employ others To do the farming
manager tractor operated contractor ect

 

[tinsheet]

Plenty do it round here, I rent a farm that the owner claims, he puts nothing in to the farm. Tell a lie a few road hedges get trimmed once a year.

 

[beef 1]

The BPS definition of ‘a farmer’ For BPS, a ‘farmer’ is a person/group of people, or a business that does at least one of the following on their holding: • produces, rears or grows agricultural products – including harvesting, milking, breeding animals and keeping animals for farming purposes • keeps some land in a state suitable for grazing or cultivation by keeping it clear of any scrub that can’t be grazed (sometimes known as ‘dense scrub’) For BPS, these are known as an ‘agricultural activity’.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

If someone owns land but don’t actively farm can they claim Sfp.

In Wales you had to show invoices for work you had done ,if you did not keep stock .or something like that

 

[Formatted]

If someone owns land but don’t actively farm can they claim Sfp.

I imagine your definition of what "actively farming" is, will be very different from what RPA says it is

 

[beef 1]

I think its a case of
Land is owned/rented
Land being used as intended for farming purposes.
Entitlements to claim
Registered occupation of land ……. not who drives the tractor o which day ?

 

[Tim W]

If someone owns land but don’t actively farm can they claim Sfp.

Yes they can and often do
BPS rewards land ownership not farming activity
Are they meant to? Probably not

Most of my landlords have no part in agricultural activity yet still get paid for owning land

 

[Agrivator]

Yes they can and often do
BPS rewards land ownership not farming activity
Are they meant to? Probably not

Most of my landlords have no part in agricultural activity yet still get paid for owning land

But surely that means they can rent land to you for seasonal grazing at what (to you) is obviously an economic rent. If they were not getting, say, £70/acre BPS, you would have to pay at least double the rent.

 

[Tim W]

But surely that means they can rent land to you for seasonal grazing at what (to you) is obviously an economic rent. If they were not getting, say, £70/acre BPS, you would have to pay at least double the rent.

My rent is set by market forces
I pay £30/acre because my neighbor & competitor won't pay more
If my landlord doesn't get BPS & other market forces remain the same I & other tennants will still only pay £30

 

[Brisel]

My rent is set by market forces
I pay £30/acre because my neighbor & competitor won't pay more
If my landlord doesn't get BPS & other market forces remain the same I & other tennants will still only pay £30

Do you see "market forces" altering post BPS? Landlords will not want to take a £90/acre haircut if they can help it.

 

[Tim W]

Do you see "market forces" altering post BPS? Landlords will not want to take a £90/acre haircut if they can help it.

Who knows?
If i get £90/acre extra for my output/goods sold then in theory i could be prepared to send some of it to my landlord
But if i don't get more for my goods then i will not be able to pay him more---maybe in a post BPS, post Brexit, brand new trading world raw agricultural outputs will be worth much more?
I have no safety net/other income to subsidise my farming so that's the way it will be

landowners may have to come to the ugly realisation that their gravy train has run out of fuel?
Certainly many businesses have been built with BPS as a core and this will be hard for many to come to terms with

 

[Agrivator]

I honestly can't understand why you are complaining. The landlord isn't farming the land, and as a result is able to let it to you, at what might be a generously low rent.

If it weren't for such philanthropists, where would you get the chance of grazing? You could of course, buy some.

 

[Tim W]

I honestly can't understand why you are complaining. The landlord isn't farming the land, and as a result is able to let it to you, at what might be a generously low rent.

If it weren't for such philanthropists, where would you get the chance of grazing? You could of course, buy some.

Me?
I just think that the taxpayer giving someone cash for owning land is immoral ---this is allegedly going to change of course
The rent i pay is not low it is what the land is worth
And whilst my landlords are all nice people they are also good businessmen/women and will maximise their profit when they can

 

[yellow belly]

Me?
I just think that the taxpayer giving someone cash for owning land is immoral ---this is allegedly going to change of course
The rent i pay is not low it is what the land is worth
And whilst my landlords are all nice people they are also good businessmen/women and will maximise their profit when they can

If you were paid the bps would you pay a higher rent or
let some one else farm it who would

 

[Tim W]

If you were paid the bps would you pay a higher rent or
let some one else farm it who would

I know that if i collect the BPS i have to pay a higher rent---that's the way it is at the moment, i can either;
1) pay £30/acre and the landowner collects £80/acre BPS
2) pay £110/acre , collect the £80 BPS and effectively pay £30 /acre rent

 

[ajd132]

Do you see "market forces" altering post BPS? Landlords will not want to take a £90/acre haircut if they can help it.

Surely if the earning potential of the land is dropping then market forces will react to this?

 

[Brisel]

Surely if the earning potential of the land is dropping then market forces will react to this?

Earning potential for landowner or grazier/contractor? Silly FBT/CFA rent equivalents bid regardless of farming's fortunes at the time. Agents will do the best to see that their clients' income doesn't drop by the BPS instantly. I'm sure you're already having discussions with your clients as to how losing BPS will affect both your bottom lines.

 

[DrWazzock]

When bps is withdrawn I can’t see that there is going to be a new source of profit to make up the difference other than a weak contribution maybe from patchy diversification’s and environmental schemes so by and large people are going to have to take a haircut. If the haircut isn’t shared then land just won’t get let. Simple as. I can’t see higher rents being sustainable so I’d imagine land either being taken in hand or more likely let for very little to keep it tidy. Could be a bit of a land price correction as well where there is little amenity value, no nice house etc.

 

[Brisel]

When bps is withdrawn I can’t see that there is going to be a new source of profit to make up the difference other than a weak contribution maybe from patchy diversification’s and environmental schemes so by and large people are going to have to take a haircut. If the haircut isn’t shared then land just won’t get let. Simple as. I can’t see higher rents being sustainable so I’d imagine land either being taken in hand or more likely let for very little to keep it tidy. Could be a bit of a land price correction as well where there is little amenity value, no nice house etc.

You'd hope that market forces would settle rents at a sensible level, but I've yet to see it. I don't see rents coming down by £90/acre where they are factored into the agreement e.g. FBT or a number 2 account for a CFA where BPS goes into the account.