sheep abortion

[newbie]

Please could someone answer me a question...
When you talk of sheep aborting and/or slipping a lamb, how do you tell? I assume in late pregnancy you would know as the ewe would look like she'd given birth and hang around the foetus for a while? But in mid or early pregnancy would she still act the same? If they were all out in the field would you just chance upon a small dead lamb?
Just interested to learn.
Thanks

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Please could someone answer me a question...
When you talk of sheep aborting and/or slipping a lamb, how do you tell?

Because it lambs before the due date and is
Dead/weak/deformed/not right

 

[alwayslearning]

Some of the

Please could someone answer me a question...
When you talk of sheep aborting and/or slipping a lamb, how do you tell? I assume in late pregnancy you would know as the ewe would look like she'd given birth and hang around the foetus for a while? But in mid or early pregnancy would she still act the same? If they were all out in the field would you just chance upon a small dead lamb?
Just interested to learn.
Thanks

Blood on tail

 

[Six Dogs]

Ok my explanation is ewes found empty at the end of lambing but had been scanned in lamb are wet/drys
In large flocks in mid pregnancy they are difficult to spot
Yes closer to lambing foetus,after birth will be seen-classic abortion’s
Then after due date weak prem lambs
Think this all illustrates why keeping records may show a trend
Be kind to yourselves guys I know the mental pressure these things put us under

 

[irish dom]

Had a ewe lamb today with 2 severely deformed lambs that looked very like schmallenberg

Hoped it’s an isolated case. Has anyone else seen it in mid lambing flocks?

Good dash of it early on in purebred flocks around Sligo but havent heard anything since end of January. It's a dirty dose

 

[Farmer_Joe]

i followed this thread for last week with interest, just though i would share info ive found on culling the ewes

Ive asked 2 local farmers one vaccinates other not, both suffered much higher than normal abortion rates (interesting what ive read its believed birds can spread the infection we have loads of seaguls in this area even though its middle of yorkshire!! its says the importance of clearing aborted lambs and moving aborted the ewes away from flock obviously to reduce spread) (taken from NADIS)

I feed deccox blocks mainly for the coccidosis benefit but it also control toxo abortion but not campy or eae/Enzo

Ive had a few abort and read quite alot on it recently not mummified corpses (believe this is most likely toxo) but lambs look normal just early and dead dont believe its campy symptoms exactly eae/Enzo . (taken from NADIS)

interesting ive found this:

"Enzootic abortion (EAE) is caused by the bacteria Chlamydophila abortus and abortion occurs in the last 2-3 weeks of pregnancy, no matter when the ewe was exposed in that period. Once infected, a ewe carries the bug for life and will shed around ovulation, providing a perfect tool to infect a working ram. This then becomes a venereal disease, basically a sheep STD, and will spread to other ewes being served by that ram. Protection prior to service by vaccinating can help prevent spread of the disease and without feeling like a parrot repeating myself, hygiene of aborting animals is of the upmost importance"

on this basis i will be culling the ewes which have aborted as this does not sound good to me and will prob begin to vaccinate gimmers i keep/buy in. vet students at another farm have warned us before keeping anything that aborts as their carriers...

taken from here http://www.westpointfarmvets.co.uk/sheep-abortion/

ive seen people not sure on this info as its not from nadis, but i have to say either way its not encouraging unless someone esle has a different perspective/information on the above comment ?

 

[neilo]

i followed this thread for last week with interest, just though i would share info ive found on culling the ewes

Ive asked 2 local farmers one vaccinates other not, both suffered much higher than normal abortion rates (interesting what ive read its believed birds can spread the infection we have loads of seaguls in this area even though its middle of yorkshire!! its says the importance of clearing aborted lambs and moving aborted the ewes away from flock obviously to reduce spread) (taken from NADIS)

I feed deccox blocks mainly for the coccidosis benefit but it also control toxo abortion but not campy or eae/Enzo

Ive had a few abort and read quite alot on it recently not mummified corpses (believe this is most likely toxo) but lambs look normal just early and dead dont believe its campy symptoms exactly eae/Enzo . (taken from NADIS)

interesting ive found this:

"Enzootic abortion (EAE) is caused by the bacteria Chlamydophila abortus and abortion occurs in the last 2-3 weeks of pregnancy, no matter when the ewe was exposed in that period. Once infected, a ewe carries the bug for life and will shed around ovulation, providing a perfect tool to infect a working ram. This then becomes a venereal disease, basically a sheep STD, and will spread to other ewes being served by that ram. Protection prior to service by vaccinating can help prevent spread of the disease and without feeling like a parrot repeating myself, hygiene of aborting animals is of the upmost importance"

on this basis i will be culling the ewes which have aborted as this does not sound good to me and will prob begin to vaccinate gimmers i keep/buy in. vet students at another farm have warned us before keeping anything that aborts as their carriers...

taken from here http://www.westpointfarmvets.co.uk/sheep-abortion/

ive seen people not sure on this info as its not from nadis, but i have to say either way its not encouraging unless someone esle has a different perspective/information on the above comment ?

Have you tested any of the aborted lambs to see what the cause is? If you don’t know what you’re dealing with, you can’t possibly know how best to deal with it.
I (unfortunately) have experience of Toxo, EAE, Campy and now SBV. I would hazard a guess as to the cause from the symptoms/timing of abortion, but I certainly wouldn’t make a definitive diagnosis on that basis, even less so from descriptions on t’internet.

If Toxo is a problem in your flock, then vaccinate. You will have to take a deep breath when you get the price on the vaccine, but it works. Feeding Deccox is a very questionable method of treatment imo, and the effect on cocci is (at best) minimal as it is already in the environment anyway.

Find out what you’re actually dealing with, then deal with it as best you can.

 

[rancher]

i followed this thread for last week with interest, just though i would share info ive found on culling the ewes

Ive asked 2 local farmers one vaccinates other not, both suffered much higher than normal abortion rates (interesting what ive read its believed birds can spread the infection we have loads of seaguls in this area even though its middle of yorkshire!! its says the importance of clearing aborted lambs and moving aborted the ewes away from flock obviously to reduce spread) (taken from NADIS)

I feed deccox blocks mainly for the coccidosis benefit but it also control toxo abortion but not campy or eae/Enzo

Ive had a few abort and read quite alot on it recently not mummified corpses (believe this is most likely toxo) but lambs look normal just early and dead dont believe its campy symptoms exactly eae/Enzo . (taken from NADIS)

interesting ive found this:

"Enzootic abortion (EAE) is caused by the bacteria Chlamydophila abortus and abortion occurs in the last 2-3 weeks of pregnancy, no matter when the ewe was exposed in that period. Once infected, a ewe carries the bug for life and will shed around ovulation, providing a perfect tool to infect a working ram. This then becomes a venereal disease, basically a sheep STD, and will spread to other ewes being served by that ram. Protection prior to service by vaccinating can help prevent spread of the disease and without feeling like a parrot repeating myself, hygiene of aborting animals is of the upmost importance"

on this basis i will be culling the ewes which have aborted as this does not sound good to me and will prob begin to vaccinate gimmers i keep/buy in. vet students at another farm have warned us before keeping anything that aborts as their carriers...

taken from here http://www.westpointfarmvets.co.uk/sheep-abortion/

ive seen people not sure on this info as its not from nadis, but i have to say either way its not encouraging unless someone esle has a different perspective/information on the above comment ?

Vaccination is best, no point in isolating the ewe when the lambing fluids are all over the place especially indoors.
I never heard of a ram getting sick from Enzo.
Seems pointless wondering whether to get rid of offenders when there's carriers around. I've seen ewes abort twice after a storm and i've seen a lot more offenders never do it again.
What I'm trying to say there is no pattern....here anyway.
It'll take a couple years to rattle through a flock with vaccination
And the numbers aborted quoted here would buy a lot of vaccine as dear as it is

 

[puppet]

interesting ive found this:

"Enzootic abortion (EAE) is caused by the bacteria Chlamydophila abortus and abortion occurs in the last 2-3 weeks of pregnancy, no matter when the ewe was exposed in that period. Once infected, a ewe carries the bug for life and will shed around ovulation, providing a perfect tool to infect a working ram. This then becomes a venereal disease, basically a sheep STD, and will spread to other ewes being served by that ram.

That is why you should not have sex with your pregnant partner due to the small risk of infecting them. I wrote an article called Safe Sex for Shepherds highlighting this possible transmission. Experts think it is inhaled but more likely through small skin cuts or an STD.[/QUOTE]

 

[Farmer_Joe]

interesting ive found this:

"Enzootic abortion (EAE) is caused by the bacteria Chlamydophila abortus and abortion occurs in the last 2-3 weeks of pregnancy, no matter when the ewe was exposed in that period. Once infected, a ewe carries the bug for life and will shed around ovulation, providing a perfect tool to infect a working ram. This then becomes a venereal disease, basically a sheep STD, and will spread to other ewes being served by that ram.

That is why you should not have sex with your pregnant partner due to the small risk of infecting them. I wrote an article called Safe Sex for Shepherds highlighting this possible transmission. Experts think it is inhaled but more likely through small skin cuts or an STD.

[/QUOTE]
jesus that not pleasant.

 

[Farmer_Joe]

Have you tested any of the aborted lambs to see what the cause is? If you don’t know what you’re dealing with, you can’t possibly know how best to deal with it.
I (unfortunately) have experience of Toxo, EAE, Campy and now SBV. I would hazard a guess as to the cause from the symptoms/timing of abortion, but I certainly wouldn’t make a definitive diagnosis on that basis, even less so from descriptions on t’internet.

If Toxo is a problem in your flock, then vaccinate. You will have to take a deep breath when you get the price on the vaccine, but it works. Feeding Deccox is a very questionable method of treatment imo, and the effect on cocci is (at best) minimal as it is already in the environment anyway.

Find out what you’re actually dealing with, then deal with it as best you can.

I had excellent success with deccox blocks, not sure if anyone else uses them?

A few years ago our supplier stopped making them, one thing and another we never got any that year and sure enough the lambs all (not literally all) got coccidosis vet diagnosed and we had to spend £500 on vercoxan to sort them.

Year after i found a new supplier of deccox blocks (dallas keith) there about £18.50 a tub + there in a high mineral block. Sure enough lambs all ok when ewes fed deccox the year after none lost to coccidosis and no symptoms.

Ive seen toxo abortion and im confident its doing it job on this front i have no reason to believe otherwise and know its working for coccidosis.

For me this system works very well and is extremely cost and time effective especially as im now on my own on the farm after losing my father.

I can see the point of lambing indoors and rapid spread i lamb outside so clearing it up and disposing asap makes sense to be fair if i lambed in doors i think i would have to vaccinate as the risks are so much higher.

I would been keen to hear the vets advice to you following infection of eae i was not sure what to think after reading it was infections and spread by tups but puppets comments seem to confer this is the case. were you advised to cull as we were by vet students?

Also do you vaccinate whole flock once then just new ewes as you add them or it it an annual occurrence?

 

[alwayslearning]

How long does it take to do samples of aborted lambs.
Tests for enzo and toxo clear but still waiting for everything else it's been two weeks

 

[msheep66]

How long does it take to do samples of aborted lambs.
Tests for enzo and toxo clear but still waiting for everything else it's been two weeks

We had to wait about 2 weeks to confirm Enzo. They said it was not conclusive till they did a different type of test.

 

[msheep66]

Told us it was Q fever at first.

 

[cotswoldcs]

Our replacement ewe lambs currently get vaccinated for Enzo, Toxo, Footvax & Heptavac P. Now that we've had Campylobacter I've got to consider adding CampyVax to the mix. If I add all that up it's going to come to a lot of money! Actually I'm not sure I want to add it all up!

Maybe I need to consider increasing the lifespan of my ewes to get more out of them. We've culled hard for the past few years but the cost of replacement stock makes me wonder. If the cull value wasn't so strong it would make more sense but when you add the vaccines, drenches, boluses etc it makes you wonder.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Our replacement ewe lambs currently get vaccinated for Enzo, Toxo, Footvax & Heptavac P. Now that we've had Campylobacter I've got to consider adding CampyVax to the mix. If I add all that up it's going to come to a lot of money! Actually I'm not sure I want to add it all up!

Maybe I need to consider increasing the lifespan of my ewes to get more out of them. We've culled hard for the past few years but the cost of replacement stock makes me wonder. If the cull value wasn't so strong it would make more sense but when you add the vaccines, drenches, boluses etc it makes you wonder.

Imagine if lambs were £50 each like some on here say we should be budgeting to produce them for

 

[neilo]

Our replacement ewe lambs currently get vaccinated for Enzo, Toxo, Footvax & Heptavac P. Now that we've had Campylobacter I've got to consider adding CampyVax to the mix. If I add all that up it's going to come to a lot of money! Actually I'm not sure I want to add it all up!

Maybe I need to consider increasing the lifespan of my ewes to get more out of them. We've culled hard for the past few years but the cost of replacement stock makes me wonder. If the cull value wasn't so strong it would make more sense but when you add the vaccines, drenches, boluses etc it makes you wonder.

Time to consider breeding your own replacements? Then you can start to look at improving whatever traits you fancy, whether that be lambing ease, prolificacy, longevity, or any/all of the above.

 

[Mcnulty24]

He might not look like much, but after spending the last few weeks picking up over 60 aborted lambs, I had forgotten what a normal lamb looks like! Hopefully will get a few more to lift the spirits.

 

[msheep66]

Yes I know exactly what you mean it's a big relief to see some healthy lambs.

 

[Greythundercloudys]

Yes sometimes you wonder if any will lamb ok