Sheep Dipping

[Loftyrules]

As a small holder <20 sheep this year and as someone who is surrounded by sheep in a potentially high risk sheep scab area I have been wondering about dipping.

I enquired with a chap who offers mobile dipping and he needs 125 minimum to make it worth his while, this got me to wondering if there is a business to be made for fellow small holders.

Looking at the kit of people such as Neil the sheep dipper man and others it looks a fair outlay and quite a large piece of kit to be getting into most small holdings.

1) Are there smaller trailed units that could be taken around (know of a guy who used to have a mobile shower but these are no good for scab)
2) Could I create a fixed unit at my property and allow (chargeable) people to bring their small flocks to run through the set up and fully disinfect between each batch
3) Would it be better to work with an existing mobile dipping contractor and get them to work from somewhere like a local auction mart for a day and people bring their small flocks at an allotted time to get them dipped.

Answers, suggestions most welcome

 

[sean m]

As a small holder <20 sheep this year and as someone who is surrounded by sheep in a potentially high risk sheep scab area I have been wondering about dipping.

I enquired with a chap who offers mobile dipping and he needs 125 minimum to make it worth his while, this got me to wondering if there is a business to be made for fellow small holders.

Looking at the kit of people such as Neil the sheep dipper man and others it looks a fair outlay and quite a large piece of kit to be getting into most small holdings.

1) Are there smaller trailed units that could be taken around (know of a guy who used to have a mobile shower but these are no good for scab)
2) Could I create a fixed unit at my property and allow (chargeable) people to bring their small flocks to run through the set up and fully disinfect between each batch
3) Would it be better to work with an existing mobile dipping contractor and get them to work from somewhere like a local auction mart for a day and people bring their small flocks at an allotted time to get them dipped.

Answers, suggestions most welcome

option 3 is easiest but i would say that,options 1or 2 would involve a lot of cost,waste carriers licence permit for disposal of waste dip, dipping certificate to buy dip,if you went mobile you would need another vehicle and tank to empty your dip so it could be moved,it's not all profit and plenty of hard work,that said if you could get enough small flocks and charge enough might be a useful service in your area

 

[tepapa]

For a small lot it does make you wonder if you cut the top off an ibc. Easy enough to get he sheep in but I'm not sure how you'd get them out again.

 

[Loftyrules]

option 3 is easiest but i would say that,options 1or 2 would involve a lot of cost,waste carriers licence permit for disposal of waste dip, dipping certificate to buy dip,if you went mobile you would need another vehicle and tank to empty your dip so it could be moved,it's not all profit and plenty of hard work,that said if you could get enough small flocks and charge enough might be a useful service in your area

Feel free to PM but what minimum numbers do you work on and what do you charge? Do you charge per head or per job?
It does sound like an awful lot of work to get set up and my other concern is other small holders just won’t bother dipping

 

[sean m]

Feel free to PM but what minimum numbers do you work on and what do you charge? Do you charge per head or per job?
It does sound like an awful lot of work to get set up and my other concern is other small holders just won’t bother dipping

it's a bit mileage, number dependant but under 500 I charge £250 for the 1st hundred and then £1per head over 500 £1per head, colour dipping £1.50, sounds good but every year they up the cost of the chemical, diesel etc, we do 60,000 ish per year and its eye watering what it costs

 

[MRT]

Can't find anyone to dip ours, contacted a few people over the years told its 1000+ sheep or not interested

 

[Loftyrules]

it's a bit mileage, number dependant but under 500 I charge £250 for the 1st hundred and then £1per head over 500 £1per head, colour dipping £1.50, sounds good but every year they up the cost of the chemical, diesel etc, we do 60,000 ish per year and its eye watering what it costs

Thank you. option 3 may be the best thing

 

[Pistonbroke]

Do either of your neighbours dip? Might be worth a joint effort and help do theirs and put yours through at the same time

 

[Loftyrules]

Do either of your neighbours dip? Might be worth a joint effort and help do theirs and put yours through at the same time

That's the other option, need to speak to them and see

 

[Longlowdog]

I don't want to pee on your bonfire but I suspect owners of small numbers of sheep who are worried about scab simply give them a jag of Cydectin or Dectomax. I think the thing smallholders need is a group buying/treating service with one person collating a group of owners who would agree to a date and time, however med's are relatively cheap and perhaps most folk will buy a 25 dose bottle and dispose of the rest more cheaply than paying a premium for a group purchase. Such a suggestion would of course require veterinary over view.
On a personal level I really dislike dipping. The idea of my ewes who like a good ol' lug scratch and brisket rub reeking of a chemical dip known to harm people is not for me. I've seen plenty of sheep dipped and I suspect a lot of folk with small numbers would not like to see Marry or Larry dipped for a second time having found out what it entails for the first time.

 

[Loftyrules]

I don't want to pee on your bonfire but I suspect owners of small numbers of sheep who are worried about scab simply give them a jag of Cydectin or Dectomax. I think the thing smallholders need is a group buying/treating service with one person collating a group of owners who would agree to a date and time, however med's are relatively cheap and perhaps most folk will buy a 25 dose bottle and dispose of the rest more cheaply than paying a premium for a group purchase. Such a suggestion would of course require veterinary over view.
On a personal level I really dislike dipping. The idea of my ewes who like a good ol' lug scratch and brisket rub reeking of a chemical dip known to harm people is not for me. I've seen plenty of sheep dipped and I suspect a lot of folk with small numbers would not like to see Marry or Larry dipped for a second time having found out what it entails for the first time.

I agree with your thoughts, it's a hard one to know what is best. Hopefully the vets I use are going to form a "small holders" club/group where we can share medicines etc As someone who is going to have to buy a bottle of Heptavac for one dose I can certainly see the benefit.
Having looked online at various bits of kit, I may be better off either sorting myself out with my own set up (but looks costly) or trying to buddy up with a local farmer who has significant numbers, if I do decide to go down the dipping route

 

[Pistonbroke]

Another problem is you would need a course to qualify to buy the dip and then disposal on top. Injectables are getting less effective so a dip now and again does a lot of good. Our tub hasn't been used for fifteen years but it's getting cleaned out next month

 

[Longlowdog]

If you Google sheep dip tubs there are plenty of options for home set ups but they are not cheap. As mentioned above there is legislation attached to dipping and disposal.
I have a plastic dipper tub and a run through footbath that the previous folk left me. I've never used them. Having a cancer that is quite possibly related to the years of my youth shoving sheep in to a dipper (no P.P.E) or forcing sheep through a formalin footbath (again no P.P.E) I hope never to use either of them again.
I wish you well with your thoughtful endeavours but personally even if you were next door I wouldn't actually use the service. A lot of smallholder type folk are also pretty green oriented and I'd survey for potential support before jumping into such a venture. I'm fortunate to be ring fenced with trees but if I thought my sheep were in danger of scab I'd actually plant a double fenced hedge on my boundary, jag the sheep according to scab treatment instructions, confine them for a while on a relatively sterile field nature wise to avoid the dung killing my mini-beasts and then adopt a pretty firm stance with my neighbours if their scab infected dross invaded my fields.

 

[tepapa]

The problem people will find Is that the scab mite is now resistant to the injectible treatment in some areas so that won't be an option.
So would they rather see mary or Larry scratching with red raw sore patches or subject them a bath in some nasty chemical?

On a side point it's interesting how we see dip as being a nasty chemical (which I quite believe it is) but then an injection of chemicals is quite harmless when in reality we know it is safe for us to use but don't know the long term affects to the sheep as many won't life long enough to find out. The chemical could be equally as bad, who knows?

 

[neilo]

The problem people will find Is that the scab mite is now resistant to the injectible treatment in some areas so that won't be an option.
So would they rather see mary or Larry scratching with red raw sore patches or subject them a bath in some nasty chemical?

On a side point it's interesting how we see dip as being a nasty chemical (which I quite believe it is) but then an injection of chemicals is quite harmless when in reality we know it is safe for us to use but don't know the long term affects to the sheep as many won't life long enough to find out. The chemical could be equally as bad, who knows?

Ivermectin is licensed for use in humans, so I wouldn’t be too concerned about that.
OP on the other hand, was developed as a nerve agent to wage chemical warfare against humans.....

But agreed, jabbing not an option if you have resistant mites, and resistance is supposed to be spreading rapidly.

Another point is that anyone dipping their sheep is only killing the scab mites on them at that time, and for a short period of protection after. It’s not going to stop you getting scab coming in if your neighbour’s sheep are riddled with it and he doesn’t bother dipping/treating them. It’s only ever meaningful protection if everyone in an area does it.

I certainly don’t intend handling OP’s here any more than I need to, and certainly not just because it’s always been like that, or because it is claimed to sort all ills/be a magic tonic.

 

[Longlowdog]

Clearly no-one in their right mind is going to watch sheep scratch themselves to death however that was not the point I was making. I was offering pointers to the views of others with regards to his business proposition. You can have a brilliant business plan but without the background checks and balances it can be a costly flop. Many smallholders are better read and understand more animal/soil science than multi-generation farmers.

 

[tepapa]

Ivermectin is licensed for use in humans, so I wouldn’t be too concerned about that.
OP on the other hand, was developed as a nerve agent to wage chemical warfare against humans.....

But agreed, jabbing not an option if you have resistant mites, and resistance is supposed to be spreading rapidly.

Another point is that anyone dipping their sheep is only killing the scab mites on them at that time, and for a short period of protection after. It’s not going to stop you getting scab coming in if your neighbour’s sheep are riddled with it and he doesn’t bother dipping/treating them. It’s only ever meaningful protection if everyone in an area does it.

I certainly don’t intend handling OP’s here any more than I need to, and certainly not just because it’s always been like that, or because it is claimed to sort all ills/be a magic tonic.

I agree Dipping is going to need to be a community effort again.
I've come across 4 flocks with it this year whilst shearing. All bar one had treated with injectables and hadn't cleared it. The other was a new infection that took two weeks to diagnose as they couldn't find any mites or any other cause. The three that had unsuccessfully treated where all small flocks under 100 sheep. They will have to work out away to get them dipped so there is merit in the OPs concern. But without a community effort to eradicate it it's a waste of time them dipping.

 

[The sheep dipper man]

As a small holder <20 sheep this year and as someone who is surrounded by sheep in a potentially high risk sheep scab area I have been wondering about dipping.

I enquired with a chap who offers mobile dipping and he needs 125 minimum to make it worth his while, this got me to wondering if there is a business to be made for fellow small holders.

Looking at the kit of people such as Neil the sheep dipper man and others it looks a fair outlay and quite a large piece of kit to be getting into most small holdings.

1) Are there smaller trailed units that could be taken around (know of a guy who used to have a mobile shower but these are no good for scab)
2) Could I create a fixed unit at my property and allow (chargeable) people to bring their small flocks to run through the set up and fully disinfect between each batch
3) Would it be better to work with an existing mobile dipping contractor and get them to work from somewhere like a local auction mart for a day and people bring their small flocks at an allotted time to get them dipped.

Answers, suggestions most welcome

option 3 is easiest but i would say that,options 1or 2 would involve a lot of cost,waste carriers licence permit for disposal of waste dip, dipping certificate to buy dip,if you went mobile you would need another vehicle and tank to empty your dip so it could be moved,it's not all profit and plenty of hard work,that said if you could get enough small flocks and charge enough might be a useful service in your area

I do agree with sean it costs alot of £££ to set up with everything that is needed aswell as alot of stress, the thing is chemical goes up in price every year, disposal cost go up yet what farmers will pay does not like most of the farming industry there is a very small proft margin.

I try to gather alot of small flocks up in one day and dip them in one day

 

[The sheep dipper man]

Can't find anyone to dip ours, contacted a few people over the years told its 1000+ sheep or not interested

I think thats stupid if they wont come for no less than 1000 they are theowing away alot of work. My smallest customer has 9 and my largest has 14000. A contractor cant single out the smaller flocks as they soon mount up over the season.

 

[MRT]

Clearly no-one in their right mind is going to watch sheep scratch themselves to death

You'd be surprised - I suppose the "right mind" caveat adds ambiguity