Should UK ag go organic

[Wheatonrotty]

Been thinking about this for a while.
We are currently losing various chemicals, and realistically are likely to lose more in the future than are approved as new ones. Add to this the fact that the current ones are having more issues with resistance, and you start to question their use.
Pushing the bad side of chemicals, even when based on questionable science, is like leaning on an open door. So should we all go organic and use social media to persuade people to spend more on their food.
Even once we are out of Europe we will still end up tied to trade deals and unable to prevent the import of food not raised to our standards, but we may be able to get a message across about.chemicals being bad.

 

[neilo]

Why do you suggest the blanket statement that 'chemicals are bad'? Lots of things could be construed as every bit as 'bad', or worse, including some of the things that are allowed for use on orgasmic cropping.

 

[Wheatonrotty]

Why do you suggest the blanket statement that 'chemicals are bad'? Lots of things could be construed as every bit as 'bad', or worse, including some of the things that are allowed for use on orgasmic cropping.

I don't necessarily think all chemicals are bad, some are some aren't. However we are losing chemicals due to regulation and it's an easy sell that anything artificial is bad. Should we get ahead and market pro actively rather than just being on the defensive.

 

[neilo]

I don't necessarily think all chemicals are bad, some are some aren't. However we are losing chemicals due to regulation and it's an easy sell that anything artificial is bad. Should we get ahead and market pro actively rather than just being on the defensive.

So we should peddle a lie, with no facts to back it up?

 

[jendan]

Why do you suggest the blanket statement that 'chemicals are bad'? Lots of things could be construed as every bit as 'bad', or worse, including some of the things that are allowed for use on orgasmic cropping.

Could be the start of a whole new marketing angle,"orgasmic food",-just like organic,but gives you an orgasm every time you eat it.

 

[Goweresque]

I had the same idea a while back so I'm glad I wasn't the only one to be thinking heretical thoughts.

Its not so much that organic is 'better', its that for UK farming to survive it needs a USP to sell to the consumer. It wouldn't have to be pure organic as such, but if all UK farms didn't use agro-chemicals and artificial fertilisers that would be a massive marketing point - the consumer could know that any UK produce would not be produced using 'nasty chemicals'.

Now I have no idea how this could be done, if its feasible, etc etc. But UK farming needs something, if its to become profitable on its own two feet and not live on a drip drip of farmers dole, always wondering if the annual injection of cash is going to dry up and decimate the industry.

It would also be a massive stick to beat the food retailing and processing industries with - at the moment they can bring in cheap imports and there not a great deal farmers can say to the public to undermine those imports and say UK produce is better. If on the other hand you could say 'Don't buy X brand cheese its imported and made with milk produced using chemicals, buy our UK cheese and its guaranteed no pesticides' that would be a powerful message.

Basically its a case of 'If you can't beat them join them'. The public think we are poisoning them with pesticides, and polluting the rivers with nitrates, regardless of the facts, so use that belief to our advantage.

 

[JP1]

Been thinking about this for a while.
We are currently losing various chemicals, and realistically are likely to lose more in the future than are approved as new ones. Add to this the fact that the current ones are having more issues with resistance, and you start to question their use.
Pushing the bad side of chemicals, even when based on questionable science, is like leaning on an open door. So should we all go organic and use social media to persuade people to spend more on their food.
Even once we are out of Europe we will still end up tied to trade deals and unable to prevent the import of food not raised to our standards, but we may be able to get a message across about.chemicals being bad.

Or logically argue the converse and say should we go GM immediately and steal the production crown whilst competing on a World stage?

 

[Goweresque]

Or logically argue the converse and say should we go GM immediately and steal the production crown whilst competing on a World stage?

And what happens when everyone else goes GM as well? Plus going GM would immediately cut us out of any markets who don't want GM. Whereas you could sell 'low input' produce to anyone, if the price was right.

Going GM would be the classic 'farmer' solution - the latest method of making two ears of wheat grow where one does now. That principle of ever increasing production has not exactly worked out well for us so far has it?

 

[bovrill]

This country is probably as anti GM as anywhere in the world, and yet has no problem with importing vast quantities of GM produce from other countries where they do grow it.
How on earth would we expect the majority of people who pretty much buy on price alone, not to use the far cheaper imported food if we were to go to the expense of only supplying organic?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Why is it always assumed that organic produce must cost more to produce- where did that one come from
The only reasons it costs more at the shop is:
More demand for it
More "wealthy people" demanding it
Less supply of it

i.e. you don't need to necessarily 'go all orgasmic' to find a stronger market than what the vast majority of farmers already have flooded..
Most buyers of vehicles buy on price too, anything that's perceived as "better" is easier to sell
But as for the OP- no!!
...because the vast majority have forgotten how to do it effectively, it's just not understood to the same degree as it was before the chem revolution of the 1920s.

Too much vanity abounds in agriculture now, for it to be adopted without being forced, in my opinion. Average yields and average prices allow bugger all room to move - especially in the UK and much of Europe- where things are fairly well pushed along.. there doesn't even seem to be total acceptance that lower input "traditional" methods will be viable.. whereas from that system high input systems look hugely wasteful.
my tuppence worth

 

[turbo]

So we should peddle a lie, with no facts to back it up?

That's how the organic lobby work,he's just getting into character

 

[neilo]

I had the same idea a while back so I'm glad I wasn't the only one to be thinking heretical thoughts.

Its not so much that organic is 'better', its that for UK farming to survive it needs a USP to sell to the consumer. It wouldn't have to be pure organic as such, but if all UK farms didn't use agro-chemicals and artificial fertilisers that would be a massive marketing point - the consumer could know that any UK produce would not be produced using 'nasty chemicals'.

Now I have no idea how this could be done, if its feasible, etc etc. But UK farming needs something, if its to become profitable on its own two feet and not live on a drip drip of farmers dole, always wondering if the annual injection of cash is going to dry up and decimate the industry.

It would also be a massive stick to beat the food retailing and processing industries with - at the moment they can bring in cheap imports and there not a great deal farmers can say to the public to undermine those imports and say UK produce is better. If on the other hand you could say 'Don't buy X brand cheese its imported and made with milk produced using chemicals, buy our UK cheese and its guaranteed no pesticides' that would be a powerful message.

Basically its a case of 'If you can't beat them join them'. The public think we are poisoning them with pesticides, and polluting the rivers with nitrates, regardless of the facts, so use that belief to our advantage.

But it's just not true and there is no scientific evidence for any blanket statement on chemicals being 'nasty', just by virtue of being chemicals. Or does that count for nothing?

 

[roscoe erf]

so your going to force us all to be organic what next vote green party reduce stocking rates and then watch as the price plummets as we are all competing in the same market hmmm

 

[Clive]

I had the same idea a while back so I'm glad I wasn't the only one to be thinking heretical thoughts.

Its not so much that organic is 'better', its that for UK farming to survive it needs a USP to sell to the consumer. It wouldn't have to be pure organic as such, but if all UK farms didn't use agro-chemicals and artificial fertilisers that would be a massive marketing point - the consumer could know that any UK produce would not be produced using 'nasty chemicals'.

Now I have no idea how this could be done, if its feasible, etc etc. But UK farming needs something, if its to become profitable on its own two feet and not live on a drip drip of farmers dole, always wondering if the annual injection of cash is going to dry up and decimate the industry.

It would also be a massive stick to beat the food retailing and processing industries with - at the moment they can bring in cheap imports and there not a great deal farmers can say to the public to undermine those imports and say UK produce is better. If on the other hand you could say 'Don't buy X brand cheese its imported and made with milk produced using chemicals, buy our UK cheese and its guaranteed no pesticides' that would be a powerful message.

Basically its a case of 'If you can't beat them join them'. The public think we are poisoning them with pesticides, and polluting the rivers with nitrates, regardless of the facts, so use that belief to our advantage.

Staying GM free could be the UK's USP as an island we are In a great position to do that

Trouble is farmers and their leaders want an easy life so will lobby to introduce GM as soon as they possibly can

VERY shortsighted imo lobbying for tech that produces more of already over supplied commodities

 

[The_Swede]

If organic was the new mainstream then it would have to be at a lower price - ie the race to the bottom will continue but in a different production system. There are millions of JAM's in this country, probably thousands using food banks, and many millions who don't give a sh!t and just buy as cheaply as possible. Yes the number of folks seeking out organic, or higher welfare products are increasing but I'd estimate proportionately not as fast as those just looking to feed the family reasonably and cheaply - its that wealth divide thing again. Whatever you think of the science given the public perception (and they are our customers) @Clive 's suggestion above is very sensible in my view.

 

[Sid]

Why do you suggest the blanket statement that 'chemicals are bad'? Lots of things could be construed as every bit as 'bad', or worse, including some of the things that are allowed for use on orgasmic cropping.

I think the some chemicals are safe. But now mix the residues, the ones below the "safe" detectable levels with each other into a cocktail and see what happens. Which mix do you start with and how many combinations is there?

Calling organic "orgasmic" is the same as calling conventional "chemical" farming. Both being petty and snide.

 

[Sid]

Staying GM free could be the UK's USP as an island we are In a great position to do that

Trouble is farmers and their leaders want an easy life so will lobby to introduce GM as soon as they possibly can

VERY shortsighted imo lobbying for tech that produces more of already over supplied commodities

I don't disagree with you but lets as farmers have a wheat/grass/oil seed that fixes its own nitrogen, seeds that have bird resistant taste, the list is endless. But these crops need to be carefully researched so we don't end up with a new Japanese knotweed or a Cane toad problem!
Lets have farmers take control for a change!

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I was originally shocked by the idea but it could be a stroke of genius.
What would make it work is if all the CAP money put into all the schemes got paid directly to support organic output. This might be doable under trade negotiations as an environmental payment and being organic would have some natural limits to output.

 

[Henarar]

Calling organic "orgasmic" is the same as calling conventional "chemical" farming. Both being petty and snide.

You could swap the names over as conventional farming is just as likely to give you an orgasm and organic farming can use chemicals

 

[Sid]

You could swap the names over as conventional farming is just as likely to give you an orgasm and organic farming can use chemicals

Yawn