Sick bull

[Davy_g]

Did the vet check out his rumen function? If hes not eating then something clearly wrong. Did he eat many nuts?
Is there any dung?
If there is blockage / impaction you could try flushing him with a jar of coffee in a bucket of luke warm water - maybe a bag of stomach microbes too from the vet - all pumped into him.
Metacalm should cover a good few bases. Id be looking a second vets opinion, blood samples etc. No harm in chucking a magnet in and checking his liver function too.

 

[hoff135]

Bull was better yesterday but far worse today, our vet has said give him pen strep and there's nothing else we can do, no way of removing a wire if it is one.

 

[som farmer]

Did the vet check out his rumen function? If hes not eating then something clearly wrong. Did he eat many nuts?
Is there any dung?
If there is blockage / impaction you could try flushing him with a jar of coffee in a bucket of luke warm water - maybe a bag of stomach microbes too from the vet - all pumped into him.
Metacalm should cover a good few bases. Id be looking a second vets opinion, blood samples etc. No harm in chucking a magnet in and checking his liver function too.

if our sows were a bit 'off' colour, and 'solid' after farrowing, used to give them 1/2lb of epsom sallts, that usually sorted any blockages.

wires can be neutralised by putting magnets down, helps sometimes, not others. Since having magnets on our keenan, its quite scary how much metal they actually pick up.

the bull is to important to take chances with, and expensive to replace. We never take chances with them, just to much to lose.

and always fertility test them before use, fertility is to important to risk a bull, firing blanks, and it does happen, all to often.

 

[hoff135]

Looks like getting a large animal vet is now impossible in 2024, back in the day they'd turn up and have him opened up in no time. Now just give a jag and if he dies to bad

 

[hoff135]

Did the vet check out his rumen function? If hes not eating then something clearly wrong. Did he eat many nuts?
Is there any dung?
If there is blockage / impaction you could try flushing him with a jar of coffee in a bucket of luke warm water - maybe a bag of stomach microbes too from the vet - all pumped into him.
Metacalm should cover a good few bases. Id be looking a second vets opinion, blood samples etc. No harm in chucking a magnet in and checking his liver function too.

No more nuts than normal and he doesn't get a lot. He seems to be dunging as normal. Lying on his side this morning groaning then standing chewing his cud by afternoon. Eating a little tonight but still a grunt on each breath

 

[Farmer Fin]

No more nuts than normal and he doesn't get a lot. He seems to be dunging as normal. Lying on his side this morning groaning then standing chewing his cud by afternoon. Eating a little tonight but still a grunt on each breath

Wires often cause them pain when the rumen cycles but could also be from breathing as well. Have seen bulls that were maybe pushed to hard as calves land with acidosis and then abscess seeding off the liver and causing issues around the lungs. Both of these are not long term success stories. Course of antiotics and see what happens. Removing a wires from a skinny dairy cow is hard enough let along being able to reach in to get one out of a bull. If it is a wire then do you have tyres on the pit? Maybe think about magnets for the cows if this is the start of an issue. How much pen strep are you giving?

 

[hoff135]

Wires often cause them pain when the rumen cycles but could also be from breathing as well. Have seen bulls that were maybe pushed to hard as calves land with acidosis and then abscess seeding off the liver and causing issues around the lungs. Both of these are not long term success stories. Course of antiotics and see what happens. Removing a wires from a skinny dairy cow is hard enough let along being able to reach in to get one out of a bull. If it is a wire then do you have tyres on the pit? Maybe think about magnets for the cows if this is the start of an issue. How much pen strep are you giving?

He's not been pushed hard so I've pretty much ruled out acidosis.

No pit here all bales silage so of its metal probably something from the field.

Penstrep says 1ml per 25kg so we have started him on 34ml per day. Take it you think if its a wire there's no hope?

 

[Farmer Fin]

He's not been pushed hard so I've pretty much ruled out acidosis.

No pit here all bales silage so of its metal probably something from the field.

Penstrep says 1ml per 25kg so we have started him on 34ml per day. Take it you think if it’s a wire there's no hope?

Just checking on the one strep amount 34ml sounds good.

Some times you can get them to settle down and wall of the wire. The risk is that the wire keeps travelling through to the sac around the heart. If you can get him through this episode they often flare up again in the future.

 

[hoff135]

Just checking on the one strep amount 34ml sounds good.

Some times you can get them to settle down and wall of the wire. The risk is that the wire keeps travelling through to the sac around the heart. If you can get him through this episode they often flare up again in the future.

Thanks, I guess time will tell. Vet was adamant there was no hope of operating even though I've had a vet open a cow years ago in the side and had a feel inside.

 

[hoff135]

Had a feel of his brisket area when we had him caught for jagging and he did not like me feeling the area one bit. Jumped up and lashed out with his back foot. I don't know did he not like getting touched or did I cause him pain

 

[Farmer Fin]

Thanks, I guess time will tell. Vet was adamant there was no hope of operating even though I've had a vet open a cow years ago in the side and had a feel inside.

The reality is it probably won’t add anything to the outcome other than a bigger bill. I’ve tried in the past taking wire out of dairy cows and I was never successful, mainly as by the time you diagnose it it’s too late (or I was just a sh!t vet), I’ve also opened up hundreds of cows for displaced abomasum ops and a fair proportion would have adhesions on the reticulum where wires had gone through and shown no signs.

Opening him up for look would only be if you thought he had a twist or impaction somewhere, but you said he was passing dung still so unlikely.

The vets could check his blood for inflammatory markers, there is a cheap test that can be don’t on farm or pop a needle into his abdomen and see what his peritoneal fluid looks like which would give an indication if peritonitis was an issue as well. Either way antibiotics are his best hope.

 

[Farmer Fin]

Had a feel of his brisket area when we had him caught for jagging and he did not like me feeling the area one bit. Jumped up and lashed out with his back foot. I don't know did he not like getting touched or did I cause him pain

Hard to say as you don’t know what he was like before. Hitting him hard straight up onto sternum can get a reaction if it’s a wire. A swollen brisket is when the heart is infected.

 

[hoff135]

Hard to say as you don’t know what he was like before. Hitting him hard straight up onto sternum can get a reaction if it’s a wire. A swollen brisket is when the heart is infected.

I know, no idea what he would have been like before. I don't think his brisket was swollen st all.

Sounds like the only hope is the pen strep for a few days.

Thanks for your help

 

[HasthorpeGrange]

How old is the bull?

 

[hoff135]

How old is the bull?

Not even 3

 

[czechmate]

I know, no idea what he would have been like before. I don't think his brisket was swollen st all.

Sounds like the only hope is the pen strep for a few days.

Thanks for your help

For the cost why don’t you bung in a magnet too. We cured a bull a few years ago

 

[hoff135]

I've manged to get a vet out finally, and to be fair she knew her stuff. Did numerous tests but nothing that pinpoints a wire. All we know is he is not eating well and is in pain. On more anti inflammatory and antibiotics. If he doest come right she with knock him out and open him up for a look

 

[hoff135]

Bull improvement dramatically after vet visit, but yesterday was off food again, today not eating in the morning, but eating a bit of hay now.

However just noticed that there is something up with his eyes, particularly the one side. They are both running and the lefts lower lid seems to be all swollen. I don't think I'll be able to get a vet out till Monday but I'm pretty confused, what the hell is going on.

 

[ladycrofter]

I'd be fishing around for seeds or awn with that. Although there doesn't appear to be a lot of tearing. Left side swelling in humans is heart related. Is his face puffy?
Mine had an enormous swelling of the brisket, it was very hard but not sensitive. If his heart sounded ok to the vet, there's no wire there. Mine had a horrific arrhythmia. We didn't PM, so it could have been congenital and not wire.
What a worry.

 

[som farmer]

l reckon could be fluke, you can get pallid colour around the eyes,

may or may not be, but damn certain l would fertility test him before you need to use him, bit of a bummer if he doesn't get your cows i/calf.

l would work assuming you have to replace him, 10 days in, and no idea what is causing it, its getting towards a bad ending. And don't forget medicine withdrawal lengths, no point filling him up with drugs, and then find he's no good for meat, till x number of days have expired.

might sound harsh, but that bull is a vital part of your system, failing to get your cows i/c, can prove to be a very expensive mistake. And they need to be 32 days post service, before the vet can confirm i/c, or not.

we run bulls with our dairy herd, and it really doesn't take much to render them impotent, for a short, or longer period.

currently just about finished with them, 3 bulls, all run together happily, when not in use. We now have 1 bull that has obviously done 'something' to his dick, he's going next week, another has gone lame, that's solvable, we think, but he's not working, 3rd bull, seems to be getting an attitude problem, started lifting gates off their hinges, to get to the other two bulls, who are 'laid' up. So he will have to go, l suspect, nasty bulls do not stay here.

to much at stake to risk a bull not working, so be certain he is fertile, or physically capable of serving your cows, something might be hurting him, inside, to stop him actually jumping.