Soil compaction

[Clive]

It's permanent pasture and historic parkland with some glorious trees, so I have no intention of putting it under cultivation.

My point was that it had developed a compaction layer, despite no cultivation whatsoever (probably for a lot more than the 100 years you quoted) and despite being in grazed pp.

Livestock and slumping from waterlogging has done the damage, not ploughs, powerharrows, etc.

So it compacted itself

Makes perfect sense ! Truly amazing I ever manage to get a crop to harvest really isn't it

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I think what Neil is trying to say is that the action of thousands of feet and water lying around at certain times has led to some areas suffering from shallow compaction. It may only be a couple of inches, but it's still a problem.

That's where machines like aerators work a treat. When using one I think small tractor on big tyres is the best method.

 

[J 1177]

try annual ploughing and power harrowing combi it for a decade or 2 , remove all straw and put it in a ww/ ww / osr rotation

I bet it doesn't get any better !

I could show many fields here where the opposite of your experience is true, areas in arable fields that ponded every year but no longer do since we stopped destroying the structure that let the water get to the drains

Sounds like our place for the last 20 year.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I think what Neil is trying to say is that the action of thousands of feet and water lying around at certain times has led to some areas suffering from shallow compaction. It may only be a couple of inches, but it's still a problem.

That's where machines like aerators work a treat. When using one I think small tractor on big tyres is the best method.

Maybe its not a problem though. I think nature does a lot of decompacting of the surface in the later spring early summer.

Ive drilled into tight as f**k land with spring barley in march and go and dig some holes in late may and its a different soil altogether. Oxygen and roots just doing their natural thing in the warmth. But the point is i had the structure even though the land was tight. Some people will never understand this but they know how to drive a tractor and "fix" it.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I understand what you are saying, and I'm not disagreeing with you, but if you have a wet summer and lots of stock on the ground I'm not sure the chance is there to put things right itself. If the stock are causing the problem, it can't be rectified unless they are kept off and they can't be kept off if the grass needs eating.

Compaction on permanent pasture, whilst not as bad as arable land, is subject to a whole different set of symptoms to arable.

 

[neilo]

Maybe its not a problem though. I think nature does a lot of decompacting of the surface in the later spring early summer.

Ive drilled into tight as fudge land with spring barley in march and go and dig some holes in late may and its a different soil altogether. Oxygen and roots just doing their natural thing in the warmth. But the point is i had the structure even though the land was tight. Some people will never understand this but they know how to drive a tractor and "fix" it.

That ground had water sitting on it every time it rained, right through 2012. It hadn't 'decompacted' (is that a word?) itself and one pass of the swardlifter has transformed it. Now the compaction layer has been sorted, the roots can actually get down and. hopefully, keep it that way for a good while.

 

[Timbo1080]

That is not subsoiled. Get your spade, dig up one of those lumps whole, and then see how hard they are?

Now, if you'd said "dig up a whole lump, put it to one side, and check that the soil below the lump doesn't have a layer of compaction", or "have a good look at the profile of the lump that you remove, and inspect for structure", I'd go along with that.

But just because it's hard, certainly doesn't mean that it's compacted. I don't doubt that it's density has increased as a result of a reduction in moisture content, and I'm sure that it'll be hard - because clay IS hard when it's dry.

Next someone will say "pull up a lump.....feel how heavy it is.....now THATS heavy soil"!

Dry clay weighs a lot, and is very hard.

 

[SilliamWhale]

That ground had water sitting on it every time it rained, right through 2012. It hadn't 'decompacted' (is that a word?) itself and one pass of the swardlifter has transformed it. Now the compaction layer has been sorted, the roots can actually get down and. hopefully, keep it that way for a good while.

Oh i dont doubt some stuff can be done now and again.

 

[Kevtherev]

Agree with @neilo that stock compact land very well sheep and cows especially.
That's why this machine is called a sheeps foot roller for that very reason

 

[SilliamWhale]

Basically its all about management. You can manage your land to get compaction and need to treat it or you can manage so you dont need to treat it.

 

[Clever Dic]

You can't in every circumstance avoid compaction. We take 3 cuts a year from our grasses it will probably have anywhere between a minimum with that of 6 passes with a tedder then 3 passes of rowing up now add 3 baler passes plus the loading of the bales and carting. Now say the grasses do 3 years . Time critical as grass quality deteriorates if left but soil moisture higher than desired.
How on earth can you avoid compaction!
No matter how smart you may be in a arable situation in these circumstances you have to find remedial treatments.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I get how you manage the arable side of things entirely.

Not being confrontational at all, how would you best manage a grazing sward or dual purpose sward in a damp spring and summer. When it needs cutting or grazing, it needs it. There are very few options.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I get how you manage the arable side of things entirely.

Not being confrontational at all, how would you best manage a grazing sward or dual purpose sward in a damp spring and summer. When it needs cutting or grazing, it needs it. There are very few options.

Ok well how often are subsoilers pulled when its not dry enough to crack a pan? Quite often.

Wheres the yield data for and against?

 

[Kevtherev]

I've seen half of a grass field done with a sward lifter for comparison and the difference is quite dramatic.

 

[Clever Dic]

I get how you manage the arable side of things entirely.

Not being confrontational at all, how would you best manage a grazing sward or dual purpose sward in a damp spring and summer. When it needs cutting or grazing, it needs it. There are very few options.

I am no expert but if I do a full cultivation reseed I will run the Sumo through it after discs. Otherwise in crop mole it or use erth panbuster when soil conditions allow lift without bringing slabs up.

 

[Ali_Maxxum]

Chain harrows also help to make grass better. Yep, I went there....

 

[icanshootwell]

I'm sure my lawns would be similar if there was combines and tractors running over them.

I sometimes drive the Tele-handler on my lawn, leaves a tyre mark, sinks in 2 inches, but in a few weeks in springs back, & you would nt know i had been there. Those worms work great

 

[Clive]

I sometimes drive the Tele-handler on my lawn, leaves a tyre mark, sinks in 2 inches, but in a few weeks in springs back, & you would nt know i had been there. Those worms work great

That's how a well structured soil is

On a cultivated soil you simply leave a rut the same depth as the last cultivation depth and it doesn't spring back

 

[bobk]

Lawns need an element of compaction , anyone who uses a rotary mower will invariably encounter moss ... fact , we use a 26inch cylinder mower with a roller .. no moss .

 

[Clive]

Lawns need an element of compaction , anyone who uses a rotary mower will invariably encounter moss ... fact , we use a 26inch cylinder mower with a roller .. no moss .

The difference between compaction and consolidation. Not the same thing, there are threads on here that have discussed that many times