Shall we take this off-piste again? You're creating an awful lot of confusion by trying to oversimplifying something that is, after all, a mite tricky to explain to the general public. It's all very well going after a "simple message" endlessly, but if you're trying to explain to the public that the constant message they've heard up to now (ie red meat and meat in general is the root of all evil) is wrong then you've got to explain it properly, otherwise the clever barstewards who are exploting all this for obscene money will take you to the fekking cleaners by demonstating you are factually wrong. It's no use being MOSTLY right. How the heck is THAT going to help anyone?
someone writing in the Farmers Weekly has FINALLY got it
- Thread starter DaveGrohl
- Start date
The message that we present to the public ? No, it's important, anyone who wants to input should do so.
No, the fact you demonstrably haven't got your head around the science. Seeing as how you seem to want to continue on here.....
The science says we should all go vegan. The science says whatever somebody wants it to say.
I'm more interested in how we deliver our message to the public. Because that, over and above the science, is what the Joe Stanley article in the OP is about.
No it isn't. Funny how everyone else seems to have got what the article was about. You are the only one that has managed to not read and understand this previously unseen story. And only you have picked out something to moan about. You have some strange coloured glasses, you should try taking them off sometimes. Then you will see that the science has grown up a bit.
The science says we should all go vegan.
No it doesn't. The very opposite in fact. The science was so poor that clever people could twist it to their own purposes and make an argument that coaxed some other people into believing it. UK GHG emissions were around 5% from livestock. They're nearer zero now than 5%. We'll get a revised figure when someone has done the maths. The old figures have been superceded now to the extent that farming can emerge from the darkness and hold its head high.
The science says whatever somebody wants it to say.
No it doesn't. Clever people with a lot of money to make managed to present some bad science in a way that fooled people into ignoring their own instincts. That's presentation. The science that allowed that has been updated now and will be far harder to twist into their shape, as much as they'll still try.
I am taking it that there is a consensus that methane as belched by cows does not contribute to 'man made climate change'.
This comment is confused. It depends on whether the cows are increasing, static or decreasing.
2) Change the message to one that says cows and sheep release 0% of UK GHG.
I vote for 2)
Wrong. Just wrong.
b) It is scientifically correct. The common understanding is that when we say 'Greenhouse gasses', we are referring to gasses that are causing climate change, ie warming. If the methane belched by cows isn't doing that, then it isn't a GHG.
Again, just wrong. Methane is a GHG. The static UK herd is not causing warming warming because the methane from the UK herd is not increasing.
Your failure to understand the science is causing you to come out with all sorts of rubbish just to have a message, any message. I'm not sure you're up to the task frankly. You're just confusing everyone.
I'm now starting to wonder if you're actually a Trojan Horse vegan nut job who is trying to destroy the farming industry from within.
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- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I like option 3 - ignore all "their" propaganda, and don't knowingly be a part of spreading new propaganda
let people discover for themselves just how much they have been lied to, fallen for all sorts of fallacies,
things like soil being a carbon sink - it's living tissue - sinks can be filled and emptied, realising that it isn't a sink or a tank removes several possibilities and creates a few new ones
IMVHO "sending a simple message" is really the crux of the problem, we could have regenerative enrolling conversations in that space - instead we want to deliver a body-shot after the end of round 3?
I know y'all feel attacked and unfairly treated by the media, but remember who it was that let the media into your life - see the possibility beyond that?
primmiemoo
Member
- Location
- Devon
Feck feck feck. Sussed.
Laters. Cows to feed
Egad, delilah! You're not a plant, are you?
Dairy Vs Plant-Based Milks
There’s no disputing the rising consumer demand for alternatives to dairy products over recent years, and indeed there’s a multitude of motivationa...
feedforgrowth.com
- Location
- East Sussex
No
How to pitch UK farmers against each other. Can see why he is being touted for the top job at the NFU.
One can work 24/7, the other is a wind mill
Never mind, let's kill the old and the poor
Typical muppet farmer. Thinks that the world stops at the farm gate. If he wants to go after Brazilian beef, then go after the food miles. Don't go after the production system, because all you do is slag off a good chunk of UK farmers. We can't all have a few Longhorns wandering about. And what would happen if we did ? UK beef becomes a niche product. Who is that helping ?
- Location
- Cumbria
We don't get any energy from Coal powered stations anymore.
Think you will find luckily we do!
- Location
- Cumbria
Think you will find we don't.
Energy Dashboard - real time and historical GB electricity data, carbon emissions and UK generation sites mapping
Live and historical GB National Grid electricity data, showing generation, demand and carbon emissions and UK generating sites mapping.
Strange as on gridwatch most nights it shows coal providing power when solar & wind stops.Think you will find we don't.
Energy Dashboard - real time and historical GB electricity data, carbon emissions and UK generation sites mapping
Live and historical GB National Grid electricity data, showing generation, demand and carbon emissions and UK generating sites mapping.www.energydashboard.co.uk
| Key | Description |
|---|---|
| Demand | This is the total UK demand for electricity. This now includes solar power but does not include unmetered sources such as Small Generation wind power |
| Renewables | This is the percent of the energy produced from renewable (wind + solar + hydroelectric + biomass) |
| Coal | These stations burn coal to produce heat.This is used to heat water to produce steam which turns a steam turbine which drives a generator to produce electricity. There are currently 9 Coal power stations in the UK. The current Governments plan is to shutdown all coal stations by 2025. |
| Nuclear | These stations use a Uranium nuclear reaction to produce heat. This is used to heat water to produce steam which turns a steam turbine which drives a generator to produce electricity. The output from these is more constant than other power generation. Fluctations usually indicate maintenance, refuelling or problems. There are currently 8 Nuclear power stations in the UK. |
| Solar | There is no central recording of Solar Generation. This figure is an estimated figure which comes from Sheffield University. This value is now included in the Demand figure |
| Wind | This is the power from Wind Farms and does not include unmetered wind turbines. The output from this fluctuates with the wind. There are currently over 6500 wind turbines in wind farms |
| CCGT | Combined Cycle Gas Turbine - These use Natural Gas to power a Turbine which turns a Generator. A second system uses the heat to produce steam which is used to turn a turbine which powers a generator. There are 39 CCGT power stations in the UK. |
| Hydro | Hydroelectric - There are approximately 200 Hydroelectric stations in the UK. Most are situated in the Scottish and Welsh Mountain areas. |
| Oil | These stations burn oil to produce heat. This is used to heat water to produce steam which turns a steam turbine which drives a generator to produce electricity. Virtually all Oil stations have been decommissioned with just a small reserve remaining. |
| Biomass | Includes the burning of Wood, Food Residues and straw. This was included in 'other' before the 1/11/2017 |
| Pumped Hydro | Pumped Storage Hydroelectric - Pumped storage incorporates two reservoirs. At times of low demand, generally at night, electricity is used to pump water from the lower to the upper basin. This water is then released to create power at a time when demand, and therefore price, is high. There are currently 4 pumped storage stations in the UK. |
| OCGT | Open Cycle Gas Turbine - These use Natural Gas, Diesel or Gas oil to power a Turbine which powers a Generator. These are expensive to run so are only used when necessary. There is currently approximately 30 of these in the UK. |
| Other | This includes anything not included in the above |
Click here for a list of operating Power Stations
Interconnectors - When positive the UK is importing and when negative the UK is exporting power.
- Location
- Cumbria
You maybe confusing coal as 'fossil fuel ' as gas is in that category.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/T43ZLF6OPBJMZNPXFBK2QGZNTE.jpg)
Britain to keep coal-fired power plants open this winter
The UK's Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) said on Friday it has been directed by the government to temporarily relax permitting conditions for coal-fired power stations in England during the winter period.
www.reuters.com
LONDON, July 29 (Reuters) - The UK's Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) said on Friday it has been directed by the government to temporarily relax permitting conditions for coal-fired power stations in England during the winter period.
Operators of coal plants, such as Drax (DRX.L) and EDF (EDF.PA), have been running down coal stocks and preparing for closure. The government remains committed to a longer-term plan to close all of the country’s coal-fired power plants by October 2024 to help it to hit climate targets.
END quote
So yes we do have coal powered generators and they are currently active. Of note is that their web sites do not mention much if anything about them burning coal, but they do.
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