Sowing herbal leys

[edwhite]

We are putting some of our current grassland down to Herbal leys.
What is the best way to establish them? Whilst we are not organic we would like to avoid round up if possible due to the effect on the mycorrhizal fungi, same with ploughing up. Is it possible to graze the pasture right down then harrow the seed in?
Open to all solutions,
Thanks
Ed

 

[Old McDonald]

My experience is that there is no difference in establishing any ley no matter what its constituents. It matters not whether you are sowing only reyegrass or a mixture. Do what you normally do. I always cultivate and form a seedbed. I have tried oversowing on several occasions over a few decades and never been happy with the results. Seed is expensive and youwant as much of it as possible to germinate and grow.

 

[Great In Grass]

Plant as you would normally to establish a grass ley some of my customers who buy herbal ley mixes from me will buy in mycorrhizal fungi to treat the seed.

 

[Gander]

We are putting some of our current grassland down to Herbal leys.
What is the best way to establish them? Whilst we are not organic we would like to avoid round up if possible due to the effect on the mycorrhizal fungi, same with ploughing up. Is it possible to graze the pasture right down then harrow the seed in?
Open to all solutions,
Thanks
Ed

Hi @edwhite, when I reseed here at home, I like to give the new leys the best chance possible. Many (not all) around here seem to skimp on reseeding but I can't see how that can possibly pay. Reseeding is a big investment, it makes sense to do it carefully.

In your situation, with a reluctance for Glypho AND ploughing, your only options are to: 1. Create a very good tilth. 2. Keep knobbling the germinating weeds. 3. Ensure a very good germination rate (by this I mean you want your crop competing all out against itself, let alone competing against whatever weed/pest burden you might have!). A proper heavy seed rate is key here. You wouldn't skimp on seed for your front lawn!

Your most important asset is your soil. So if you haven't already, I would advise getting your soils tested. This needn't cost much, and can sometimes be done foc by Lime and Fert suppliers. If the soil, temperature and nutrients are right, your ley will prob have the best chance if you can keep the existing ley grazed tight until the new seeds are actually just starting to poke through. Any reduction in completion will help.

Admittedly I sell farm inputs, including seed...but I don't think mine is simply a biased view? PM me if you would like some prices [emoji4][emoji106]

 

[ski]

We are putting some of our current grassland down to Herbal leys.
What is the best way to establish them? Whilst we are not organic we would like to avoid round up if possible due to the effect on the mycorrhizal fungi, same with ploughing up. Is it possible to graze the pasture right down then harrow the seed in?
Open to all solutions,
Thanks
Ed

Could you take a very late crop of hay (as per grass seed growers), good burn (still allowed on grass stubble) plough and over winter, spring barley and undersow but take the barley early and whole crop it?

 

[mikep]

We are putting some of our current grassland down to Herbal leys.
What is the best way to establish them? Whilst we are not organic we would like to avoid round up if possible due to the effect on the mycorrhizal fungi, same with ploughing up. Is it possible to graze the pasture right down then harrow the seed in?
Open to all solutions,
Thanks
Ed

Until we can learn to walk on water you will.find that you have to do one or the other. Ploughing would be the best if the leys are old and you are impatient to get back to grass or r up in the autumn and plant in the spring to allow some degredation of the root mass.
Old boys would plough in summer and autumn and winter and maybe again in the spring to kill the old grass so don't worry it's not the end of the world and your soil will recover. the soil is a hell of a lot tougher than many would have believe and the fungi will multiply up within a month or two given the right conditions.

 

[Kevtherev]

Plough or Direct drill into bared off pasture will need good management

 

[Bury the Trash]

Give the best chance to expensive seed - plough with a dowdeswell and 14 inch ycn body.

 

[mikep]

Just come across this seems that glyphosate may be being wrongly blamed for reducing soil microorganisms.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00380717


Abstract
We assessed the direct and indirect effect of the herbicide glyphosate on soil microbial communities from ponderosa pine (Pinus ponderosa) plantations of varying site quality. Direct, toxic effects were tested using culture media and soil bioassays at glyphosate concentrations up to 100-fold greater than expected following a single field application. Indirect effects on microbial biomass, respiration, and metabolic diversity (Biolog and catabolic response profile) were compared seasonally after 9–13 years of vegetation control using repeated glyphosate applications in a replicated field study. Three pine plantations were selected to provide a range of soil characteristics associated with glyphosate binding (clay, Fe and Al oxide content) and site growing potential from the lowest to the highest in northern California. Glyphosate was toxic to bacteria and fungi from each plantation when grown in soil-free media. Culturable populations were reduced, as was the growth rate and metabolic diversity of surviving bacteria, by increasing concentrations of glyphosate. This toxicity was not expressed when glyphosate was added directly to soil, however. Microbial respiration was unchanged at expected field concentrations (5–50 μg g−1), regardless of soil, and was stimulated by concentrations up to 100-fold greater. Increased microbial activity resulted from utilization of glyphosate as an available carbon substrate. Estimated N and P inputs from glyphosate were inconsequential to microbial activity. Long-term, repeated applications of glyphosate had minimal affect on seasonal microbial characteristics despite substantial changes in vegetation composition and growth. Instead, variation in microbial characteristics was a function of time of year and site quality. Community size, activity, and metabolic diversity generally were greatest in the spring and increased as site quality improved, regardless of herbicide treatment. Our findings suggest that artificial media assays are of limited relevance in predicting glyphosate toxicity to soil organisms and that field rate applications of glyphosate should have little or no affect on soil microbial communities in ponderosa pine plantations.


So doesnt give bugs cancer either!