Sowing on the green

[Dan Powell]

So we've got a block of land post winter OSR that's destined for winter wheat. We currently have a mixture of volunteer rape and Pedders no. 2 mix growing on there.

The question is will the oats affect the wheat germination due to their alleopathic effect as they die off?

This is the first block of land we will be direct drilling with a cash crop ever so I don't want to fail at the first hurdle.

Can I get away with spraying off the day I drill? It seems a shame to kill the cover too soon as the vetches, peas and sunflowers are just starting to get going.

 

[Clive]

Sounds ideal - spray the day you drill or even after if you feeling really brave ! Get a much growth from the cover as you dare

Good luck

 

[Jim Bullock]

Dan
If you don't want to use too many slug pellets I would be happy to spray off after drilling...we have done it on numerous occasions without a problem.. Our only harvestable winter sown winter wheat (2013) was drilled into rape volunteers which were taller than front weights on the tractor, I could not see the marks left by the markers (Kuhn SD 4000) but come the spring and the crop just romped away; good soil structure, plenty of N and it yielded above our normal wheat average, in an exceptionally bad year. I think once we can all get our heads around the concept of "Keeping Our Soils Alive" we can produce some quite interesting results (Financially ££) and tick all (and a few that nobody has thought about) boxes environmentally.

 

[moretimeforgolf]

Whilst I like the concept, I've found in practice that leaving rape volunteers to grow uncontrolled has lead to the ground to be sucked dry ... the wheat then struggled to germinate. Maybe you guys get regular rainfall in September, we don't, so this year I've controlled the volunteers early in order to retain moisture and starve the slugs. I have however got a cover crop (Pedders #1) up and away on fields destined for spring cropping.

 

[BSH]

Could you not drill a little later if there isn't enough moisture early on?

 

[marco]

or a little deeper to chatch the moisture

 

[Clive]

Dan
If you don't want to use too many slug pellets I would be happy to spray off after drilling...we have done it on numerous occasions without a problem.. Our only harvestable winter sown winter wheat (2013) was drilled into rape volunteers which were taller than front weights on the tractor, I could not see the marks left by the markers (Kuhn SD 4000) but come the spring and the crop just romped away; good soil structure, plenty of N and it yielded above our normal wheat average, in an exceptionally bad year. I think once we can all get our heads around the concept of "Keeping Our Soils Alive" we can produce some quite interesting results (Financially ££) and tick all (and a few that nobody has thought about) boxes environmentally.

Much of my winter wheat was established in similar circumstance

You would never have thought it possible to establish a good wheat crop on such a situation but trust me it works, keeps rampant slugs at bay and has the added benefit of a free dose of compost on you land as it breaks down

If grass weeds are not a problem I may not bother with glyphosate on some osr stubbles at all this autumn !!

 

[Dan Powell]

So the question is how late do I sow? I was thinking the last week of September but the cover crop isn't all that big yet. I'll try to get some photos up here later.

 

[Clive]

So the question is how late do I sow? I was thinking the last week of September but the cover crop isn't all that big yet. I'll try to get some photos up here later.

the greener it gets the better and also the latter you will sow - we drilled last year in November on a thick green matt that carried the tractor and acted as a barrier between tyres and soil. you would never have traveled on "brown" soil in the same conditions

there are so many advantages to maintaining a thick green matt as long as you have a drill that will cope

 

[shakerator]

If you've got a green cover of rape volunteers the slug burden is not enough to stop the wheat establishing ( I don't deny it slows grazing). With regards the spray dilemma with roundup sticking low rate Lexus in a "pre em" type role helps hedge your bets a bit....but watch grass weeds!

Very happy to drill on the green on light land. Heavy land will now be Spring crops in high residue situations

 

[Dan Powell]

OK here's some photos of the cover I'll be drilling into:

The good:

The not so good:

Oddly it's the lighter land that has more slug damage - it all had pellets but this area has been ravaged. The blighters are living inside the old rape stems.

Most of the field is in the good category, but seeing as direct drilled wheat should be going in now, I'm tempted to crack on and drill with the Kuhn and kill the cover, put some pellets on etc. What do the experts think?

On the bright side, lots of worms working away and a fair few mushrooms appearing (we applied a hefty dose of compost before the OSR) so I'm hoping the soil is coming to life a bit.

 

[Old Spot]

As no experts have been along you will have to make do with my comments. Top pic looks good get on and drill, the bottom one get on and drill. Last year slugs were biblical, this year still lots about but IMO manageable, we do not seem to have massive numbers and I cant find anywhere near the number of slug eggs that i did last autumn. Best of luck put some pics up when drilling and when emerged.

 

[SilliamWhale]

@Dan Powell - I thought you were retiring from DD!? Anyway both look ideal to crack on but are you drilling wheat into volunteer wheat there?

I'm definitely seeing more fungus and mushrooms after rape this year. Don't know why.

FWIW I've got virtually zero slugs. I know I've said it now...lots of beetles wandering around too. I think as its warm and conditions good I don't think slugs are going to be the havoc they were last year and good job too - even in DD I don't think its entirely progressive to expect to shove loads of pellets on every field every year if we can help it.

 

[Dan Powell]

@Dan Powell - I thought you were retiring from DD!? Anyway both look ideal to crack on but are you drilling wheat into volunteer wheat there?

I'm definitely seeing more fungus and mushrooms after rape this year. Don't know why.

FWIW I've got virtually zero slugs. I know I've said it now...lots of beetles wandering around too. I think as its warm and conditions good I don't think slugs are going to be the havoc they were last year and good job too - even in DD I don't think its entirely progressive to expect to shove loads of pellets on every field every year if we can help it.

No not retiring! Just getting started. Wrote last year off due to the weather. Will do about 25% of the farm this year. All this week hopefully. Mostly wheat into rape stubbles, but some winter barley into wheat stubbles. I'd do the whole farm, but we mauled some crops in last year and the plough (hisssss) is doing a cracking job of rectifying those areas in the dry. Hopefully next autumn we'll build on that and do more like 50-75%, unless of course we have another 2012.

The volunteers are not volunteers but oats sown in a Pedders mix. Hopefully they won't affect the wheat germination too badly.

 

[rob1]

@Dan Powell - I thought you were retiring from DD!? Anyway both look ideal to crack on but are you drilling wheat into volunteer wheat there?

I'm definitely seeing more fungus and mushrooms after rape this year. Don't know why.

FWIW I've got virtually zero slugs. I know I've said it now...lots of beetles wandering around too. I think as its warm and conditions good I don't think slugs are going to be the havoc they were last year and good job too - even in DD I don't think its entirely progressive to expect to shove loads of pellets on every field every year if we can help it.

Certainly fewer slugs here this year, perhaps dd doesnt kill the predators than live on them,

 

[Dan Powell]

Sown. Feeling a bit mad now. Hope it grows...

 

[Clive]

Sown. Feeling a bit mad now. Hope it grows...

Perfect Dan

Exactly how our looked last year,

 

[d williams]

Drilling keilder wheat into oat stubble been subsoils with sumo gls only yhen left to chit

 

[Y Fan Wen]

So how long after sowing would you spray then?

 

[d williams]

So how long after sowing would you spray then?

Sprayer came in about two hrs after drilling then he sprayed all the other stubble
Hoping to drill tommorr wanted to see if any difference post drilling to pre drilling