Spraying Docks and associated weeds on grassland.

[Bogweevil]

Remember aminopyralid stewardship for Forefront, Garlon pro etc:

The product must not be used on land where vegetation will be cut for animal feed, fodder or bedding nor for composting or mulching within one calendar year of treatment.

(10) Manure from animals grazed on ‘Name of Product’ treated grassland should not leave the farm. Manure from animals fed silage, hay or haylage produced from grassland treated in the previous calendar year should not leave the farm. This manure should only be spread onto agricultural grassland.

 

[Wellytrack]

3 years you're joking. Dock seeds remain viable in the soil for up to 80 years. Each seeded dock can produce 100000 seeds. When a dock grows it produces a hormone which stops other dock seeds germinating. So kill 1 there are another 99999 waiting.
I spot spray mine with a knapsack. I use Blaster with some crop oil and some Done That marker. You would be surprised how much you can cover in an hour. The docks get a good hammering and no yield loss in the grass. Even allowing for labour it works out at a fraction of the cost of doing the whole field and does a better job. The yield loss with spraying the whole field can be substantial especially in dry hot weather. Try doing half field and see the difference.

I'm aware of the weeds success.
Just pointing out that some people persistently complain that just because they have used Dockstar or forefront once instead of 2.7ltrs per ha of generic MCPA at 30 quid for 10 litres they say "That dear spray is no good" "I tried it and the docks came back".

Little is done to actually prevent the plant get to seed and then go to silage and return again through the slurry for example.

 

[Paddington]

Looking through some ADAS notes, sorry no reference, I found this entry under docks:
Broad-leaved dock is able to grow on a range of soils except the most acid. Soils high in nitrogen or low in potassium are said to favour docks. However, some research has shown a clear link between increasing dock populations and increasing levels of soil potassium. But other studies concluded that increasing the potassium status did not favour docks.

There are some who would argue that docks in grassland are not weeds because they contribute to the herbage and hence do not need to be controlled. They may also contribute trace elements to a grazing animals diet. Broad-leaved dock is relatively high in phosphate and potassium levels in the leaves, and is particularly high in magnesium. Cattle fed on the herbage containing docks are said not to suffer bloat because tannins in the dock leaves precipitate out soluble protein in the rumen liquor.

 

[David.]

3 litres/ha of MCPA will severely damage thistles and nettles, check docks, and leave clover fairly untouched.

 

[Wellytrack]

3 litres/ha of MCPA will severely damage thistles and nettles, check docks, and leave clover fairly untouched.

What is your maximum dose rate? Ours was 3.2, now reduced to 2.7.

Tbh I find MCPA nowhere near as effective on rushes in particular unless a sticker is applied.

 

[ollie989898]

I had good results with Headland Polo - nothing fancy - just MCPA and 2,4 D but it knocked the docks over in a couple of days and they haven't come back.

Polo is weak as fudge on established grass even at max rate.

 

[ollie989898]

What is your maximum dose rate? Ours was 3.2, now reduced to 2.7.

Tbh I find MCPA nowhere near as effective on rushes in particular unless a sticker is applied.

If you are doing rushes, you need to top them down low first. Then hit the regrowth,

Use full rate 2,4D AND MCPA or you will only tickle them.

 

[ollie989898]

Been quoted £110/£120 per 5l of Forefront. what mixes out there would do the same job for less money. What is that like as a price for Forefront?

What weeds do you have in front of you, and what size area are we talking about?

Show me a picture if you want.

If you have docks, thistles AND nettles- Use pastor.

If you have docks, thistles, nettles AND buttercup- use forefront.

If you have docks then you need to use a doxstar type product, consider adding more generic fluroxypyr to it if you wish.

The Headland polo + minstrel/hatchet type mixes are not that strong and are the kind of thing I would use on new leys, I.E weeds from seed.

These products are expensive. I would not consider using them unless you have a right old mess in front of you.

Thrust is very expensive for what it is and will be stiff money at high rates. You can do a half rate thrust + flyroxypyr mix for docks which will work very well but its not going to nuke every weed you have in sight, few products work well on all species.

Use an adjuvant when you are spraying established weeds in established grass, good water volumes and good steady spraying. This is not the place to be driving at 25kmh and using 100L of water. Grassland weeds have big roots and you need good coverage on plenty of healthy foliage. It's not like spraying a few wussy weeds in arable crops.

Two doses of stiff hormone type products will not be far off the cost of a single go of pastor or forefront. You need to make the decision on how big your weed problem is.

 

[nxy]

Ally (metsulfuron) is approved here in France for grassland use at 20g/ha. At that rate it can be pretty hard on ryegrass so we tend to use it carefully. We sprayed some hybrid (second year) ryegrass a couple of months ago with less than half rate (7.5g) and it took out both docks and thistles without hurting the grass. We left some test strips to see if there was any visible difference and couldn't see any. I paid 16 euros for 100g pots so this cost 1.20€/hectare.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

What about the clover [emoji256] has anybody still got some after spraying?

Clover is like docks here it comes back whatever you do

 

[milkloss]

3 litres/ha of MCPA will severely damage thistles and nettles, check docks, and leave clover fairly untouched.

tried this late on in a silage field not too long before cutting as the docks were racing to seed. It knocked them hard and did a surprisingly good job but when we came to cut the field the bulk of grass was likely two thirds of what was there before. Stopped them seeding though

 

[Paddington]

How do organic farmers cope with docks ?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

tried this late on in a silage field not too long before cutting as the docks were racing to seed. It knocked them hard and did a surprisingly good job but when we came to cut the field the bulk of grass was likely two thirds of what was there before. Stopped them seeding though

My experience with mcpa . It will burn the leaves off and do sod all to the roots .

 

[ollie989898]

Ally (metsulfuron) is approved here in France for grassland use at 20g/ha. At that rate it can be pretty hard on ryegrass so we tend to use it carefully. We sprayed some hybrid (second year) ryegrass a couple of months ago with less than half rate (7.5g) and it took out both docks and thistles without hurting the grass. We left some test strips to see if there was any visible difference and couldn't see any. I paid 16 euros for 100g pots so this cost 1.20€/hectare.

Metsulfuron is evil on docks. They really don't like it. Less than half rate will be fine. Add with hormone herbicide (also at reduced rate) to soften it on the grass and increase the weed spectrum. Used to do this a lot with cimarron.

 

[David.]

What weeds do you have in front of you, and what size area are we talking about?

Show me a picture if you want.

If you have docks, thistles AND nettles- Use pastor.

If you have docks, thistles, nettles AND buttercup- use forefront.

If you have docks then you need to use a doxstar type product, consider adding more generic fluroxypyr to it if you wish.

The Headland polo + minstrel/hatchet type mixes are not that strong and are the kind of thing I would use on new leys, I.E weeds from seed.

These products are expensive. I would not consider using them unless you have a right old mess in front of you.

Thrust is very expensive for what it is and will be stiff money at high rates. You can do a half rate thrust + flyroxypyr mix for docks which will work very well but its not going to nuke every weed you have in sight, few products work well on all species.

Use an adjuvant when you are spraying established weeds in established grass, good water volumes and good steady spraying. This is not the place to be driving at 25kmh and using 100L of water. Grassland weeds have big roots and you need good coverage on plenty of healthy foliage. It's not like spraying a few wussy weeds in arable crops.

Two doses of stiff hormone type products will not be far off the cost of a single go of pastor or forefront. You need to make the decision on how big your weed problem is.

And how important your clover is to you.

 

[benny6910]

How do organic farmers cope with docks ?

They spot spray them. I think they are allowed to. Well I know somebody who does anyway.

 

[solo]

How do organic farmers cope with docks ?

You wouldn’t have seen me contract spraying 5am on a Sunday morning then!

 

[smallholder99]

is there a way to stop the millions of seeds in the ground germinating every time the soil is disturbed, heard of strong infra red lights on cultivator could trigger the seeds into germinating then not establishing deep in the soil, or market gardeners steam the soil to kill weed seeds, how difficult to get benificial bacteria back

 

[Derrick Hughes]

is there a way to stop the millions of seeds in the ground germinating every time the soil is disturbed, heard of strong infra red lights on cultivator could trigger the seeds into germinating then not establishing deep in the soil, or market gardeners steam the soil to kill weed seeds, how difficult to get benificial bacteria back

Don't desturb it , the top inch is your Castle

 

[Homesy]

They spot spray them. I think they are allowed to. Well I know somebody who does anyway.

sshh don't tell @Sid