Spreading Kalfos/Fibrophos VR?

[Brisel]

Thought I'd better start my own thread rather than hijacking @Clive's,

On the other thread, Clive said he uses Kalfos and Fibrophos for P+K as it's cheaper (I can see the logic there), and does it variable rate, but what I want to know is, if there's areas which need P or K, yet have high pH indices, are these products suitable?

...or are these products used as a base blanket coverage, and top up the more deficient areas with TSP/MOP?

Or am i getting too bogged down in it?

@Cab-over Pete @Kevtherev

@NeilT123 and @360farmsupport

I'm not sure of the high pH aspect, though you have to,consider how other forms of P can be locked up too. I use high P sewage cake and top up with variable rate 0.23.2 P Grow. For K I use variable rate 0.0.26 Fibrophos if I can't get enough FYM or compost as a base dose.

The price difference to MOP and TSP more than covers the spreading cost plus they are packed with trace elements and calcium too, not that I need Ca on chalk soils.

You've probably read threads on how Fibrophos is "unavailable" yet it's a fine powder unlike the larger granules of bagged P or K. If you apply a biennial dose you'll have plenty of availability. Kevtherev's link shows P solubility in weak acid, not neutral water.

On the main down side, Fibrophos/Kalfos is a bulky product that can't be done in tramlines only, so you've got the logistics of application and heaps in the field after harvest. Mine turns up in walking floors so finding tip sites after heavy rain is tricky then I've got to go back with a subsoiler and lift the tip sites.

 

[J 1177]

We use the 0 16 16 at 4 bags acre. Seems to do well

 

[Kevtherev]

Does it supply any sulphur Kev?

Sulphur up to 8% so3

 

[mo!]

We're using the high P fibrofos for the first time this year. Kalfos would have been cheaper but we would have to sort the spreading ourselves, the local fibrofos man has all the different grades stacked up in the yard.

 

[Kevtherev]

 

[Wombat]

We're using the high P fibrofos for the first time this year. Kalfos would have been cheaper but we would have to sort the spreading ourselves, the local fibrofos man has all the different grades stacked up in the yard.

Who are u using if u don't mind me asking?

 

[mo!]

Who are u using if u don't mind me asking?

Coning. I can PM his number if you want.

 

[Mounty]

Thought I'd better start my own thread rather than hijacking @Clive's,

On the other thread, Clive said he uses Kalfos and Fibrophos for P+K as it's cheaper (I can see the logic there), and does it variable rate, but what I want to know is, if there's areas which need P or K, yet have high pH indices, are these products suitable?

...or are these products used as a base blanket coverage, and top up the more deficient areas with TSP/MOP?

Or am i getting too bogged down in it?

@Cab-over Pete @Kevtherev

Fibrophos, P-Grow & PK-UP are all suitable for soils at varying pH levels so no issues there. 95% plus of TSP can be locked up in high pH soil 24-48 hrs after application.

Anyone know if you can spread Kalfos/fibrofos through a Kuhn aero??!!

In a word, No!

how do you calculate how much is needed to be put down? i.e. 2t to the acre etc

Well if you normally use 0-24-24 and you buy 0-12-12 Fibrophos, double the application.
If you normally use TSP 46% P2O5 and buy P-Grow 0-23-3 double it you get same P2O5. Or look at your latest soil tests and work it from those.

Did this a few weeks ago as a comparison. Prices were correct at the time I did it and comparison refers to specific grades.

 

[Kevtherev]

This is a phosphate mine.
Fibrophos and other similar products are renewable

 

[Brisel]

Fibrophos, P-Grow & PK-UP are all suitable for soils at varying pH levels so no issues there. 95% plus of TSP can be locked up in high pH soil 24-48 hrs after application.


In a word, No!


Well if you normally use 0-24-24 and you buy 0-12-12 Fibrophos, double the application.
If you normally use TSP 46% P2O5 and buy P-Grow 0-23-3 double it you get same P2O5. Or look at your latest soil tests and work it from those.

Did this a few weeks ago as a comparison. Prices were correct at the time I did it and comparison refers to specific grades.
View attachment 567860

What grade of Fibrophos for K is that please? I'm currently on 0.0.26

 

[Mounty]

That example is based on the same grade, 0-0-26. Also available as 0-0-20 and 0-5-20

 

[BenB]

@Mounty Do you have a link or source that TSP is locked up within 24-48 hrs on high pH soil please? Very very interested to read.

 

[Mounty]

Difficult to find much on the net, doesn't underline it fully but here http://soils.wisc.edu/facstaff/barak/soilscience326/phosphorus.htm
Often people will use MAP or DAP instead of TSP for this reason.

Edit: Link doesn't mention time frame just pH of around 6.5
I've heard the 24-48 hour timeframe mentioned in soil pits and technical events several times.

Mentioned here previously https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/fertiliser-question-dap.14187/

 

[Clive]

Fibrophos, P-Grow & PK-UP are all suitable for soils at varying pH levels so no issues there. 95% plus of TSP can be locked up in high pH soil 24-48 hrs after application.


In a word, No!


Well if you normally use 0-24-24 and you buy 0-12-12 Fibrophos, double the application.
If you normally use TSP 46% P2O5 and buy P-Grow 0-23-3 double it you get same P2O5. Or look at your latest soil tests and work it from those.

Did this a few weeks ago as a comparison. Prices were correct at the time I did it and comparison refers to specific grades.
View attachment 567860

is Pgrow basically the same as Kalfos but more expensive ? or are there other differences ?

 

[Brisel]

Different parent material - P Grow is burnt manure ash. Kalfos has meat & bonemeal in. As fertiliser? Hard to say beyond the different analysis.

 

[Mounty]

P-Grow is also meat and bone meal but completely different source and appearance.

 

[Rob Holmes]

P-Grow is also meat and bone meal but completely different source and appearance.

Any restrictions with applying this product onto crops going directly into food chain, i.e. milling wheat?

 

[Mounty]

None what so ever. Only restriction is it is not certified for organic use

 

[neilo]

None what so ever. Only restriction is it is not certified for organic use

Wasn't one of the Kalfos salesmen that turned up on here last year claiming that it was certified for organic? I seem to remember it raised a few eye brows at the time.

 

[KALFOS]

Good to see that renewable products are getting some airtime, I've taken over the KalFos role this season and am available if anyone has any queries still left to answer. To summarise what I've read, it spreads 10-12m from a lime spreader, no-one will pay what it would cost us to prill it! Variable rate is all down to your machine's capability, low spreading rates can mean this becomes a bit of an issue but I'm happy to work with anyone wanting to test the theory. In my mind it should be used as a flat rate dressing unless there are massive P index variations across field, but even then these could be as a result of pH imbalance so the plant could not be getting the P showing in the soil results. With reference to organic status, there is no black or white answer. In its current state, KalFos does not have Organic certification, but it can be used in individual situations where a derogation is granted, these are mainly for trace element deficiencies. I am working on certification on a particular batch of product-watch this space. Last one I think-supply chain restrictions-I am not aware of any restrictions from millers/maltsters or produce growers. KalFos is not a waste, nor is it regulated as an ABP, so there are no risks there. It has been confused with some biostimulant products which have been subject to restrictions, but KalFos is definitely not! It is produced by closed loop agricultural recycling-we deal with fallen stock and food wastes, process and incinerate them, and produce KalFos.
KalFos is obviously available through a network of distributors as well as through the marketplace. If you have any tehcnical queries I will be happy to answer them regardless of whether you buy direct or through a distributor. For any more info, there is a fair bit on www.kalfos.co.uk or you can PM me.