SSSI and ragwort

[Grass And Grain]

OK, so we've got a SSSI. No fert, no chems, must be cut for hay after 1St of July.

Landlord gets HLS payment. We are the tenant.

Took land on years ago on the above terms. Happy with that.

Of course, through years of July cutting and no herbicides the marsh ragwort has got worse and worse.

Natural England man tells me it's my problem to sort, but I don't get the HLS payment.

Anyone any suggestions of how to handle natural England?

 

[Pan mixer]

sheep grazing in the early spring

 

[milkloss]

As above, sheep in nice and early to nibble the middle of the rosette and kill it. Will take a couple of years doing this at least to have any effect.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Good practical suggestion, thanks.

They flood it with water in winter, then you can't really get near it until summer time when they want it cutting for hay.

Could I play the ragwort and animal welfare card?

 

[haymaker80]

We got a derogation from NE to spray some our HLS land for ragwort, just asked our adviser. Not on a SSSI though, maybe a bit tougher to get derogation?

 

[Grass And Grain]

Did they let you spray full field or just spot spraying?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Rubber gloves, black bag

 

[haymaker80]

Sprayed about 3 acres of a 20 acre field. Just told NE adviser it was an animal welfare issue and that we had a legal obligation to control it.

 

[yellowbelly]

We had some on a similar basis. Landlord got a derogation and supplied the chemical, we did the spraying.

Did they let you spray full field or just spot spraying?

Derogation was for spot spaying - but it was a rather large spot

 

[Grass And Grain]

Rubber gloves, black bag

I couldn't see a 'dislike' button on the forum software.

 

[Goweresque]

Some interesting info here:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...Tram17rIeGpP29NqQ&sig2=Wl-w2uDmY43plK7pP07KGw

Looks like marsh ragwort is less toxic than common ragwort, about half apparently, and mostly in the flowers, so a wander about pulling the flower heads off prior to mowing could be in order?

 

[Grass And Grain]

[QUOTE="yellowbelly, post: 3488202, member: 42308"

Derogation was for spot spaying - but it was a rather large spot [/QUOTE]

My 21m self propelled would do quite large spots.

 

[haymaker80]

Some interesting info here:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjth9zykY7SAhVWF8AKHZ5ABdoQFggcMAA&url=http://www.floodplainmeadows.org.uk/sites/www.floodplainmeadows.org.uk/files/files/Marsh%20Ragworth%20Trial%20RSPB%20Leaflet.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFnhNzKBibC9Tram17rIeGpP29NqQ&sig2=Wl-w2uDmY43plK7pP07KGw

Looks like marsh ragwort is less toxic than common ragwort, about half apparently, and mostly in the flowers, so a wander about pulling the flower heads off prior to mowing could be in order?

I would just tell the NE adviser it is common ragwort, doubt they will know the difference

 

[Grass And Grain]

Some interesting info here:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjth9zykY7SAhVWF8AKHZ5ABdoQFggcMAA&url=http://www.floodplainmeadows.org.uk/sites/www.floodplainmeadows.org.uk/files/files/Marsh%20Ragworth%20Trial%20RSPB%20Leaflet.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFnhNzKBibC9Tram17rIeGpP29NqQ&sig2=Wl-w2uDmY43plK7pP07KGw

Looks like marsh ragwort is less toxic than common ragwort, about half apparently, and mostly in the flowers, so a wander about pulling the flower heads off prior to mowing could be in order?

It seems to be in full flower when we cut it, so can't understand how it's seeding.

Some seed must be setting.

 

[Grass And Grain]

I would just tell the NE adviser it is common ragwort, doubt they will know the difference

I might offer him a ragwort sandwich.

He seems to think it's OK for my cattle to eat it.

 

[Goweresque]

It seems to be in full flower when we cut it, so can't understand how it's seeding.

Some seed must be setting.

No, ragwort is a weird plant - its biennial if untouched for its life cycle, ie it grows as a rosette for one season, then in the second it sticks the tall seed head up, then dies off and releases all the seeds. But if you cut it while it is still alive the cycle is broken, and it will stay alive for another year and try again to send its seeds heads up. Hence why the more you cut fields with ragwort the bigger the plants get, as they send up more seed heads with each succeeding year.

The only way to solve the problem is spraying while in the rosette stage or pulling it, root and all. Forefront T is a pretty good spray for ragwort, but there are restrictions on its use (no hay or silage making on sprayed land) and its not certified for knapsack use either.

 

[Phil-the -farmer]

Spoke to local natural England guy here. He said no derogation needed to spray on my HLS as it was an invasive weed!

 

[Yorkshire lad]

OK, so we've got a SSSI. No fert, no chems, must be cut for hay after 1St of July.

Landlord gets HLS payment. We are the tenant.

Took land on years ago on the above terms. Happy with that.

Of course, through years of July cutting and no herbicides the marsh ragwort has got worse and worse.

Natural England man tells me it's my problem to sort, but I don't get the HLS payment.

Anyone any suggestions of how to handle natural England?

We are in the same position we have flood meadows that are an sssi .We rent some from NE and they are responsible for removing ragwort they do this by hand rogueing. They wont consider spraying either on a trial basis or spot spraying despite being sprayed to control ragwort before it was listed as an sssi .I worked out that it costed £90 acre to hand pull a 12 acre field we cut
On the land we mow for our landlord we cut the grass and immediately bale it and compost the grass as the ragwort is so bad its not to economic to hand rogue it
Natural England tell me Marsh Ragwort is half as toxic as Common Ragwort.They don't realise that my hay buyers arn't keen to buy hay contaminated with Ragwort , Common or not
These flood meadows near us now do not justify a rent due to the light crop and the restrictions on cutting dates. The hay looks and smells great but there is very little feed value in it .
I would rather buy straw in the swath as i just have to bale it saving mowing and turning ect and less risk trying to make hay.
Quite frankly if these meadows had never been listed an sssi then they would be in better condition than they are now under NE control. They were made sssi because of the way they had been farmed long before NE was created . Good luck dealing with NE you will need it

 

[It was already broken.]

I hope you are not paying much rent on that @Grass And Grain. Or if you are time to speak to landlord/manager about a reduction as you won't be able to use the hay. It isn't your management that has reduced the value.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Just read the feed regulations.

As far as I understand it, it is illegal to sell hay known to contain ragwort.

It is also illegal to offer ragwort contaminated feed to your own stock.

Our tenancy is long term. NE did a HLS agreement with our landlord whilst we were tenants, without consulting us.

Meeting landlord this week, then NE are going to get a piece of my mind. Going to ask them to pay me to take hay away and dispose of it.

Any idea @Yorkshire lad how much I should ask them per acre to do that?

Sounds like we are having the same problems as you.

When we took the land on 25 years ago it was reasonably productive. It's got worse every year since.