SSSI and ragwort

[Grass And Grain]

I hope you are not paying much rent on that @Grass And Grain. Or if you are time to speak to landlord/manager about a reduction as you won't be able to use the hay. It isn't your management that has reduced the value.

I think your right. It's gone on too long.

Will be looking for either a rent reduction or preferably get NE to pay me to dispose of ragwort infested forage.

Will threaten them with getting food standards agency involved, as I believe animal feed hygiene and safety regulations comes under their remit.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

Quite frankly if these meadows had never been listed an sssi then they would be in better condition than they are now under NE control. They were made sssi because of the way they had been farmed long before NE was created . Good luck dealing with NE you will need it

I'm afraid that this is the case in most SSSI's I would think. Mine is becoming a completely different place as a result of their restrictions.

 

[It was already broken.]

What sort of long term tenancy allows the landlord to sign up to HLS without consultation?

 

[Grass And Grain]

I'm afraid that this is the case in most SSSI's I would think. Mine is becoming a completely different place as a result of their restrictions.

What they first registered as a SSSI is now somewhat different isn't it.

Ragwort infested, flooded rubbish.

 

[Yorkshire lad]

Just read the feed regulations.

As far as I understand it, it is illegal to sell hay known to contain ragwort.

It is also illegal to offer ragwort contaminated feed to your own stock.

Our tenancy is long term. NE did a HLS agreement with our landlord whilst we were tenants, without consulting us.

Meeting landlord this week, then NE are going to get a piece of my mind. Going to ask them to pay me to take hay away and dispose of it.

Any idea @Yorkshire lad how much I should ask them per acre to do that?

Sounds like we are having the same problems as you.

When we took the land on 25 years ago it was reasonably productive. It's got worse every year since.

We don't pay a rent to our landlord we charge him to mow and bale the grass and cart if off, He accepts this and is arguing with Ne as he says the HLS payment does not cover the continued loss of a hay crop that he could sell

With the land we take off NE some we baled for hay and some we baled and have used it for bedding as there was to much ragwort it for me to sell as hay . i have refused to pay a rent and have told them what i can't sell as hay the will have to pay me to remove the crop and dispose of it
.
I am trying to convince them that their current policy of hand pulling is not working . Mowing and composting will be better financially and environmentally if they won't consider spraying .
Be aware Ne use Nature conservation trust volunteers to rogue their ragwort here. I remind them i am a commercial business and don't work for free and it's now 2016 not 1816 and hand pulling should be over as there are alternatives available .

Our meadows are full of yellow flowered plants buttercup , marsh marigold so even the best worker misses some ragwort because it can be difficult to see it among the other plants
NE still want a 1 July mowing date the problem with this is the ragwort can set seed by this time

What you need is records of crop yields before it was listed as an sssi and what your harvesting from it now .Use this as a argument that NE policy is a detrimental to the land and your business
Ne claim that the HLS payment covers our losses, i argue that the payment is not enough when the crop cannot be used as hay to sell or feed my stock on.

The way NE behave is a disgrace ,land can be listed an sssi against landowners wishes often devaluing it
Ne seems to have allot of power and influence and be unaccountable to anyone its about time they were brought to book.
I don't hold out much hope though as the new payment scheme will be green based giving Ne more power and influence over us . Unless we can open the governments eyes to Ne failings[/QUOTE]

 

[Tomtrac]

I have carted a lot of round bales from the north lancs and lake district in cumbria to the tips a few years ago and they charged me £38 to £40 per ton but heard its gone up a hecka of a lot since then poss two bales a tonne
Carted off with artics
As above some parts ok for farmers no ragwort but treating little areas different a pain
Manly from council and forestry wildlife areas etc

 

[Purli R]

Can you not use a Weedwiper? With or Without asking- if its done,its done!

 

[Giles1]

Just read the feed regulations.

As far as I understand it, it is illegal to sell hay known to contain ragwort.

It is also illegal to offer ragwort contaminated feed to your own stock.

Our tenancy is long term. NE did a HLS agreement with our landlord whilst we were tenants, without consulting us.

Meeting landlord this week, then NE are going to get a piece of my mind. Going to ask them to pay me to take hay away and dispose of it.

Any idea @Yorkshire lad how much I should ask them per acre to do that?

Sounds like we are having the same problems as you.

When we took the land on 25 years ago it was reasonably productive. It's got worse every year since.

I would be inclined to give it up if by complying you are well out of pocket.If not don't just ask for payment to remove,it costs to bale ,cart,mow etc. Are you allowed to graze it at all? Another point to consider is the flooding.We have almost got rid of our ragwort,however it keeps reappearing, largely along our river banks and on our SSSI which floods often.The seed is in my opinion coming down the river and being dropped on our ground.There are a couple of places upstream with serious infestations.It also blows in to some ground we rent from the neighbouring golf course.My point is it may only be possible to control rather than clear given the regular flooding on your rented ground and NE should be made aware of this.

 

[Grass And Grain]

I would be inclined to give it up if by complying you are well out of pocket.If not don't just ask for payment to remove,it costs to bale ,cart,mow etc. Are you allowed to graze it at all? Another point to consider is the flooding.We have almost got rid of our ragwort,however it keeps reappearing, largely along our river banks and on our SSSI which floods often.The seed is in my opinion coming down the river and being dropped on our ground.There are a couple of places upstream with serious infestations.It also blows in to some ground we rent from the neighbouring golf course.My point is it may only be possible to control rather than clear given the regular flooding on your rented ground and NE should be made aware of this.

The way I read the rules on safety of animal feed, I don't think we are allowed to graze it.

NE have just had a very succinct email from me.

I have said that I will not break the law on feed regulations.

I have asked them to compensate me appropriately for my losses and costs.

I have pointed out that they entered into a HLS agreement with my landlord, knowing full well that it is myself that is doing the farming and has management control.

I have pointed out that the field was previously free of ragwort and that their prescribed management stipulations of no fert, no herbicides, no lime and July hay cutting have facilitated the ragwort infestation. There is no ragwort on my adjoining fields that are not in a SSSI.

I think the main thing in my favour is that it is illegal to sell the hay, feed it to my stock or graze the livestock.

If they don't play ball and come up with a plan to reduce the ragwort then I will inform the food standards agency and trading standards, as they are the organisations who oversee the feed laws.

Thanks to everyone on here for the suggestions and support.

We will await their reply.

If I don't get any luck with my NE contact, I will be asking to speak to his boss and asking for the complaints procedure.

As you may tell, I've had enough of them.

 

[Tim W]

Natural England man tells me it's my problem to sort, but I don't get the HLS payment.

Anyone any suggestions of how to handle natural England?

Tell NE they are wrong --- it is the landlords and HLS recipient/signee problem not yours

 

[exmoor dave]

Just read the feed regulations.

As far as I understand it, it is illegal to sell hay known to contain ragwort.

It is also illegal to offer ragwort contaminated feed to your own stock.

Our tenancy is long term. NE did a HLS agreement with our landlord whilst we were tenants, without consulting us.

Meeting landlord this week, then NE are going to get a piece of my mind. Going to ask them to pay me to take hay away and dispose of it.

Any idea @Yorkshire lad how much I should ask them per acre to do that?

Sounds like we are having the same problems as you.

When we took the land on 25 years ago it was reasonably productive. It's got worse every year since.

We had similar happen to us, I could live with all the grazing cutting restrictions, even the no fert,
But the no liming is completely bonkers!
Landlord only told us about the HLS when we turned sheep in at the wrong time (normal time for us)

The Meadows are as they are (were) because of the way we had farmed them for 120 yrs.

The decline year on year is astounding, the meadows have gone from land we could finish lambs on to land now that at a push just maintains dry ewes.

All the flowers that were there have now disappeared.......&been replaced with rushes!

The really sad thing is that the meadows even survived the war ag during ww2, because they were recognised as historic meadows.

The only saving grace is that we get a chunk of the HLS which is slightly more than the rent, but it's no where near the loss of production.

 

[digger64]

We had similar happen to us, I could live with all the grazing cutting restrictions, even the no fert,
But the no liming is completely bonkers!
Landlord only told us about the HLS when we turned sheep in at the wrong time (normal time for us)

The Meadows are as they are (were) because of the way we had farmed them for 120 yrs.

The decline year on year is astounding, the meadows have gone from land we could finish lambs on to land now that at a push just maintains dry ewes.

All the flowers that were there have now disappeared.......&been replaced with rushes!

The really sad thing is that the meadows even survived the war ag during ww2, because they were recognised as historic meadows.

The only saving grace is that we get a chunk of the HLS which is slightly more than the rent, but it's no where near the loss of production.

This is also our situation with hls ,thought I was the only one who saw it like this but we dont get the payment though ,its extremely depressing to be persecuted by the state and agents short term greed, brexit gives hope though

 

[Grass And Grain]

I believe the HLS is a waste of the taxpayers money. It's low lying grassland that would remain hay meadows and be managed in the same way as it has been for the previous couple of hundred years, without any payment.

And as @exmoor dave says, the flowers are getting pushed out by rushes.

The SSSI isn'tin the same state as when it was first designated. That's a failure by NE and I wonder if they have committed an offence by doing that. They have altered the wildlife spectra that the SSSI was first designated for.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

It is heartbreaking. My SSSI is a marsh which was used by my neighbour, who is also in it, to graze young beef stock through the winter and then rested through the summer. The plants specified in the SSSI are all things that grow in pools and hoofprints. All the summer growth was trashed down all winter and then left undisturbed to grow all summer, flowering and seeding and full of nests etc.. It was a pleasure to wander through it in late summer looking at all the flowers and listening to the birds. Now, with 7 dry sheep in the summer it is turning into woodland and I wouldn't know where to start looking for the specified plants.

They just don't seem to grasp that it is the way these places 'were' farmed that made them what they were.
'Farming' an SSSI is not accepted.

 

[dogandstick]

When we took the land on 25 years ago it was reasonably productive. It's got worse every year since.

You've achieved NE's objective then!!