Step up Reform Party ?

[jendan]

OK Arcobob. But after that 13 years of Tory government from 1951 to 1963, following just 5 years of Labour in which time the Churcill, Eden, Home governments continued with the 'social contract' resulting from the end of WW2 there was Labour government from 1963 to 1970, so 7 years, then Tories 1970 to 74m, then Labour until 1970 when the country overwhelmingly overthrew the Socialist Labour government and we have 1979 to 1997, some 18 years of Tories -- with the Grantham shopkeepers daughter in charge for most of that with her purse economics and brtuality to the working class and unionised Labour. I agree with you that the Conservative Party is not 'right wing' but is there a desire for a 'true' right wing party - what is a right wing party - what does it stand for, what are its policies. If ever in government would it have the following of the country?

Many of the moderate Tory MPs either got deselected or retired at the 2019 Election as they were mostly pro EU.

 

[essex man]

OK Arcobob. But after that 13 years of Tory government from 1951 to 1963, following just 5 years of Labour in which time the Churcill, Eden, Home governments continued with the 'social contract' resulting from the end of WW2 there was Labour government from 1963 to 1970, so 7 years, then Tories 1970 to 74m, then Labour until 1970 when the country overwhelmingly overthrew the Socialist Labour government and we have 1979 to 1997, some 18 years of Tories -- with the Grantham shopkeepers daughter in charge for most of that with her purse economics and brtuality to the working class and unionised Labour. I agree with you that the Conservative Party is not 'right wing' but is there a desire for a 'true' right wing party - what is a right wing party - what does it stand for, what are its policies. If ever in government would it have the following of the country?

No, there is no desire for right wing policies.
The state looks after too many people for rolling it back to be popular

 

[Lowland1]

Two years of Covid two years of the Ukraine war. These are factors well out the hands of the UK Government. They’ve affected every country in the world. The belief that a bunch of amateur chancers are going to turn it all around is a bit mad really.

 

[arcobob]

He has only said that private schools fees should not be VAT exempt and why should they be?

It will inevitably drive some private schools to bankruptcy. The sate system is oversubscribed, certainly in Norfolk, with some pupils having to be transported and schooled in Cambridgeshire. New schools will have to be built to accommodate and many teachers from the private schools will leave the profession because the job satisfaction which they have enjoyed simply does not exist. 20% VAT on what is left is not going to pay for that lot. I am sure that you are aware that parents, when send their kids to private school, are already paying twice for their education.
A survey showed that 25% of parents did not think that kids need to go to school for five days a week. I think the survey sample was fairly small and judging by the response it was conducted outside the school gate of a state secondary school. Free childcare may have some bearing on the response.
Private education is not just about providing the bare minimum, as seems to be the norm in state schools today. My grandchildren, who started out in the state system, never played sport at school until they entered private prep school. One has captained the school at hockey and cricket as well as being a county cricket captain in her age group, another has represented the school at hockey, swimming and rowing and a third has achieved accolades for all aspects of performing arts. Their academic achievements are no less admirable.You simply don`t get that opportunity in state schools, especially if you are attending less than five days a week.

 

[capfits]

Many of the moderate Tory MPs either got deselected or retired at the 2019 Election as they were mostly pro EU.

The few that remain may not stand either, as well, the long years in opposition with the nutters cannot be attractive.

 

[Hindsight]

The few that remain may not stand either, as well, the long years in opposition with the nutters cannot be attractive.

I depair (well not really as who cares) but the FPTP system ensures the political parties do not split into groupings which reflect the electorates opinions.

 

[arcobob]

OK Arcobob. But after that 13 years of Tory government from 1951 to 1963, following just 5 years of Labour in which time the Churcill, Eden, Home governments continued with the 'social contract' resulting from the end of WW2 there was Labour government from 1963 to 1970, so 7 years, then Tories 1970 to 74m, then Labour until 1970 when the country overwhelmingly overthrew the Socialist Labour government and we have 1979 to 1997, some 18 years of Tories -- with the Grantham shopkeepers daughter in charge for most of that with her purse economics and brtuality to the working class and unionised Labour. I agree with you that the Conservative Party is not 'right wing' but is there a desire for a 'true' right wing party - what is a right wing party - what does it stand for, what are its policies. If ever in government would it have the following of the country?

I don`t think we are a million miles apart but, to put it simply, we need opposing political views in order to form a consensus, not more of the same embelished by vote catching claptrap.

 

[Lowland1]

He has only said that private schools fees should not be VAT exempt and why should they be?

Why shouldn’t they be ?

 

[Hindsight]

I don`t think we are a million miles apart but, to put it simply, we need opposing political views in order to form a consensus, not more of the same embelished by vote catching claptrap.

On balance I think it good there is a Reform Party. And all the other parties. But until the GE system changes to PR (true PR) it is pointless having these parties with the FPTP based on constituency return as is. my vote counts for nothing other than historical record in my part of Lincolnshire. South Kesteven will vote in a Tory irrespective. At least the EU elections I felt were worth voting as my vote counted - albeit to an electoral college of for the position of EU MP.

 

[arcobob]

On balance I think it good there is a Reform Party. And all the other parties. But until the GE system changes to PR (true PR) it is pointless having these parties with the FPTP based on constituency return as is. my vote counts for nothing other than historical record in my part of Lincolnshire. South Kesteven will vote in a Tory irrespective. At least the EU elections I felt were worth voting as my vote counted - albeit to an electoral college of for the position of EU MP.

Totally agree and for that reason I am fast becoming in favour of electoral reform. but fo God`s sake ban the Greens. Sorry, no pun intended.

 

[Hindsight]

Totally agree and for that reason I am fast becoming in favour of electoral reform. but fo God`s sake ban the Greens.

electoral reform is overdue and imperative. Won't happen as to disruptive. I have said many times I would welcome Mr Farage and his ilk being in power - proper power. I would make him Home Secretary and see how he gets on with it in real life, rather than the cock sure simulator he plays when filming to camera in the Channel for GB News.

 

[essex man]

electoral reform is overdue and imperative. Won't happen as to disruptive. I have said many times I would welcome Mr Farage and his ilk being in power - proper power. I would make him Home Secretary and see how he gets on with it in real life, rather than the cock sure simulator he plays when filming to camera in the Channel for GB News.

What are the policies that you wish to see, that an "imperative" reform would deliver?

 

[Hindsight]

What are the policies that you wish to see, that an "imperative" reform would deliver?

None for me particularly. But from the folk on here keen on Reform and then other folk in the news keen on other things - all feeling they are not represented seems imperative they get a chance to vote in who they think will represent them best. Seems clear it is not any of the current parties likely be successful with FPTP.

 

[wilber]

I would be very careful with Reform. snake oil salesmen at their finest. You only have to look at the party leaders mistress and poster girl Elizabeth Oakenshott. She's a vegan who helped produce the anti farming film farmageddon. If you thought boris's carrie was influencing ag policy then Oakenshott is next level!

 

[arcobob]

Why shouldn’t they be ?

It`s just a crude swipe at the middle classes and an intended vote catcher. It won`t affect your Etons and Harrows but it will finish many smaller schools without historical underlying trusts.
Greshams school is one of the largest in Norfolk and is supported by the Worshipful Company of Fishmongers, a wealthy and ancient Guild. Norwich School is of similar size and one of the oldest in the country and was founded by the Bishop of Norwich in 1098. It too has a sound financial base. Contrast this with smaller schools with lesser financial backing and the debt levels are already on the verge of unsustainable. Many are custodians to some historic buildings but these will become a liability when the school closes and will end up being demolished and levelled for development. The prosperity of many villages, towns and cities around the country owe much to these schools.

 

[soapsud]

Labour won power properly for the first time in 1945 (the two periods prior were minority government or a national government) and introduced widespread reforms, socialism as you indicate. However Arcobob the Conservatives won the 1951, 1955 and 1959 elections. The 1955 election with the largest percentage of the electorate in any UK general election (49.5% of the electorate voted Tory). The Tories had 13 years to overturn the post war Labour reforms. Explain.

Part of the US deal to feed/supply the UK during WW2 was that we abandon our empire. The colonies used to be our best customers. Then our political nous and military capability was put in check by the Suez Crisis. Finally, our reduced and slowly outmoding means of production, engineering, and supporting our own, meant the country nearly went bankrupt in the 70s.

Financialisation saved the UK. Immigration is thought by both Tories and Labour to be saving it again.

But look at our rising national debt, our wasteful and costly public services (NHS, transport infrastructure, education) and explain why these aren't working and benefiting the population?

 

[soapsud]

I don`t think we are a million miles apart but, to put it simply, we need opposing political views in order to form a consensus, not more of the same embelished by vote catching claptrap.

Ever since the Civil War in the 17th century, this has been true. But it is fraught with compromise and half-heartedness - Clegg's actions meant the Liberals won't be taken seriously for a generation. Every coalition was piecemeal but every big majority meant the government of the day wasn't properly held to account.

Popularism in the UK is an entirely new phenomenon. Us oldies are right to be weary of it.

 

[Hindsight]

Part of the US deal to feed/supply the UK during WW2 was that we abandon our empire. The colonies used to be our best customers. Then our political nous and military capability was put in check by the Suez Crisis. Finally, our reduced and slowly outmoding means of production, engineering, and supporting our own, meant the country nearly went bankrupt in the 70s.

Financialisation saved the UK. Immigration is thought by both Tories and Labour to be saving it again.

But look at our rising national debt, our wasteful and costly public services (NHS, transport infrastructure, education) and explain why these aren't working and benefiting the population?

The Empire was crumbling and an anachronism well before WW2. WW2 speeded up the inevitable with regard to political change within the people of the colonial states, combined with a financially damaged UK.

 

[essex man]

None for me particularly. But from the folk on here keen on Reform and then other folk in the news keen on other things - all feeling they are not represented seems imperative they get a chance to vote in who they think will represent them best. Seems clear it is not any of the current parties likely be successful with FPTP.

But you don't think these policies would be good, so why increase the chance of them happening(if it indeed it would)?

 

[Hindsight]

But you don't think these policies would be good, so why increase the chance of them happening(if it indeed it would)?

I have no view if good or bad. But each should get the same level of representation which doesn't happen at the moment (does it, in your opinion?). Maybe there is a desire for a 'strong' right wing government. The EU referendum showed folk vote as they see fit when true democracy with each vote counting equally. So if PR based on equal voting rights all political persuasions would get equal crack of whip.