Steve Barkley at OFC

[turbo]

Less fossil fuel used, less carbon released/soil OM mineralised and less bag fertiliser used on crops with lower yield potential. Wins all round for public goods.

Win for the farmer but I fail to see what public good is in it for your average man on the street struggling to pay bills!

 

[neilo]

Win for the farmer but I fail to see what public good is in it for your average man on the street struggling to pay bills!

Less carbon used AND released, helping us head towards that magical 'net zero' figure.

 

[DrWazzock]

Less carbon used AND released, helping us head towards that magical 'net zero' figure.

For me that’s a commercial and moral management decision internal to my own business. Why should I expect the public to pay me to increase my profits and reduce carbon usage which is the reason I direct drill when it’s practical to do so?
What next? Pay the public not to use air travel? Pay prisoners out on probation not to do burglaries?
I honestly despair at the sense of entitlement and grasping nature of our industry. What happened to go old fashioned “standing on your own two feet” and of it doesn’t pay then sell up and let somebody else have a go. Note to self as much as anybody else. I’d happily compete on an equal footing to imports subsidy free and RT free. Why can’t we ever seem to rid ourselves of the massive layer of expensive treacle both at DEFRA and at organisations like RT which would lead us towards a truly lean, efficient and environmentally benevolent industry with opportunities for new starters with fresh ideas rather than it being an industry of featherbedded geriatric claimants. Anyway, I’ll get my coat before I upset anybody eise and just damn well get on with it with no subsidy whatsoever when BPS has gone.

 

[turbo]

Less carbon used AND released, helping us head towards that magical 'net zero' figure.

And less carbon capture from poor crops!

 

[Adeptandy]

I for the life of me cannot see any public good from dd,yes it’s good for the farm business if you can get it to work but a public good is a bit of a stretch!

Bird numbers have doubled on my patch since DD, RSPB neighbours inform me

 

[Adeptandy]

maybe but under my sfi rotation i will only be using glyphosate once a year - hardly excessive or more than many who cultivate do

if resistance happens im sure we will find alternative methods

Yes, I can never understand why the local plough enthusiasts spray Glypho a few days before ploughing

 

[Spencer]

Win for the farmer but I fail to see what public good is in it for your average man on the street struggling to pay bills!

That’s a wider question though about net zero

 

[turbo]

Bird numbers have doubled on my patch since DD, RSPB neighbours inform me

Must of been a pretty barren place before DD to double numbers! More like your neighbors have controlled the corvid numbers in your local area to get that sort of increase

 

[4course]

Less fossil fuel used, less carbon released/soil OM mineralised and less bag fertiliser used on crops with lower yield potential. Wins all round for public goods.

except if the lower yield potential is actual, somewhere that will be made good more than likely by destroying jungles or depriving the starving of food or increase in tert and chems etc used in the source country

 

[Nitrams]

Bird numbers have doubled on my patch since DD, RSPB neighbours inform me

Pheasants or partridge?

 

[texelburger]

That a production subsidy though, which would mean your buyer might not have to pay for the cost of production, which is how we got where we are today.

Yes you could call it that but it would produce environmental benefits.You could call,maybe,herbal ley payments a production subsidy as a crop is grown which too benefits the soil and environment.

 

[ajd132]

For me that’s a commercial and moral management decision internal to my own business. Why should I expect the public to pay me to increase my profits and reduce carbon usage which is the reason I direct drill when it’s practical to do so?
What next? Pay the public not to use air travel? Pay prisoners out on probation not to do burglaries?
I honestly despair at the sense of entitlement and grasping nature of our industry. What happened to go old fashioned “standing on your own two feet” and of it doesn’t pay then sell up and let somebody else have a go. Note to self as much as anybody else. I’d happily compete on an equal footing to imports subsidy free and RT free. Why can’t we ever seem to rid ourselves of the massive layer of expensive treacle both at DEFRA and at organisations like RT which would lead us towards a truly lean, efficient and environmentally benevolent industry with opportunities for new starters with fresh ideas rather than it being an industry of featherbedded geriatric claimants. Anyway, I’ll get my coat before I upset anybody eise and just damn well get on with it with no subsidy whatsoever when BPS has gone.

You are spot on

 

[Adeptandy]

Must of been a pretty barren place before DD to double numbers! More like your neighbors have controlled the corvid numbers in your local area to get that sort of increase

Plenty of Corvids about, unfortunately
I have no idea, I’m not a bird specialist, just going by what they’ve said

 

[Adeptandy]

Pheasants or partridge?

I don’t know if they count them.
Apparently lots of small birds

 

[Lincsman]

This is the biggest misconception out there. If you’ve got land that if you ploughed it and it baked out would take 14 passes with a power harrow ( been there, got the tee shirt ) and you still haven’t got a seed bed then you’ve got the greatest to gain from no till.
These soils benefit the most from having a much faster establishment system ( the only real reason I started ) it’s just you have to know when you can drill and more importantly when to stop. Getting an extra bung of cash or spending £100k on a drill isn’t the solution, changing your mindset is.

Do you a consultation service, after 3 - 5 years of DD around here with every D Drill available done by 3 different farmers there is hardly a crop that is worth saving as its been under water 2 months, this is clay (marine alluvium) below sea level, Interestingly the DD fields dont really crack in summer anymore.
Some of my land thats been fallow 3 years now without a tractor on it other than spraying roundup to kill a mat of blackgrass floods worse than i ever remember... does it need a Deere 750 across it?

Ok the deep cultivated fields have messy headlands and odd usual wet holes but they will make crops

 

[Simon Chiles]

Do you a consultation service, after 3 - 5 years of DD around here with every D Drill available done by 3 different farmers there is hardly a crop that is worth saving as its been under water 2 months, this is clay (marine alluvium) below sea level, Interestingly the DD fields dont really crack in summer anymore.
Some of my land thats been fallow 3 years now without a tractor on it other than spraying roundup to kill a mat of blackgrass floods worse than i ever remember... does it need a Deere 750 across it?

Ok the deep cultivated fields have messy headlands and odd usual wet holes but they will make crops

I haven’t thought about doing a consultation service, you can call me if you want to discuss it in detail. PM me if you want.
Several things to note from your post. 1) no drill stops it raining, 2) having a direct drill and knowing how and when to use it aren’t necessarily the same thing, 3) rotation, especially rooting depths are important to make it work, some plants are much better at establishing in compromised conditions than others and finally a 750 isn’t a magic wand that can solve all your problems, I’ve never claimed it to be .

 

[Lincsman]

I haven’t thought about doing a consultation service, you can call me if you want to discuss it in detail. PM me if you want.
Several things to note from your post. 1) no drill stops it raining, 2) having a direct drill and knowing how and when to use it aren’t necessarily the same thing, 3) rotation, especially rooting depths are important to make it work, some plants are much better at establishing in compromised conditions than others and finally a 750 isn’t a magic wand that can solve all your problems, I’ve never claimed it to be .

So what would you suggest to all these farms, currently ploughing or very deep high disturbance cultivation are winning the day, this is 5t wheat land done "properly" and the small savings in cultivation are now after a few years really starting to bite, a 3 ton crop now looks out of reach, how many years of DD will it take to get back to 4.5t crops that dont have cultivation?
One field had winter beans on it last year and looked good, but its deep tap roots that i thought would help have done nothing, and now worse than ever.

Have you a theory as to why these clay soils dont now crack like in auscultated ground, it used to dry out down to subsoil and when rains came it went down to the drains easily?

 

[Farma Parma]

No Till....with a ph combi

Did you take the tines out the ph

Its the only drill i have so no choice....

 

[Simon Chiles]

So what would you suggest to all these farms, currently ploughing or very deep high disturbance cultivation are winning the day, this is 5t wheat land done "properly" and the small savings in cultivation are now after a few years really starting to bite, a 3 ton crop now looks out of reach, how many years of DD will it take to get back to 4.5t crops that dont have cultivation?
One field had winter beans on it last year and looked good, but its deep tap roots that i thought would help have done nothing, and now worse than ever.

Have you a theory as to why these clay soils dont now crack like in auscultated ground, it used to dry out down to subsoil and when rains came it went down to the drains easily?

If you think ploughing and deep cultivation is doing it “properly” and you’re getting 5 tonnes to the acre of wheat then I think you should keep doing it. I’m still firmly of the opinion that yield is king whichever way you decide to establish your crop.
If you do decide to get off the “hamster” wheel of cultivation you have to play by the rules. To start with you’ve got to pick the right conditions before you jump. Starting in a year where the previous crop wasn’t good or a wet harvest where you’ve compacted the soil aren’t the years to start.
Setting the combine up is critical, you’ve got to spread the chopped straw and chaff to the full width of the header, baling the straw is easier to start. If you chop you’ve got to spread prilled lime at 500kg/ha if you plant the following crop within 8 weeks of harvest and especially if it going to turn wet. My rule of two weeks earlier in the autumn, two weeks later in the spring is more about going it the right conditions, too many operators are more concerned about getting the job done and completely loose sight of the fact that the system is all about respecting the soil structure. In the early years a slight sniff of N is probably required at planting to compensate not mineralising it by tillage.

Our clay soils stopped cracking when they dried, personally I think it’s a good sign. When you cultivate a soil, although you’ve loosened it up nicely you’ve destroyed its structure so when it rains it slumps and compacts. When it dries it will then crack. If you compare my direct drilled soil with local soils that have been ploughed they initially look wetter during and immediately after heavy rain events. Within 24-48 hrs they would be drier and walk nicely, the ploughed soil would stick to your boots. If you look at our soil surface you can see why, it’s 100% worm cast, sadly I can never get it to come out in a photo.