Suckler cow breed

[Roy_H]

It was done quite openly in decades past (I recall a blonde cross calf going through the pedigree sale ring, with some reference to grading up), but most pedigree/pure breeders have stepped back from it. Some commercial herds use a lim as a crossing bull on them, but carefully select out progeny.

There's a double muscled gene within the breed, and a lot of bulls are tested for it - many breeders don't want it due to calving issues.
My own experience of it was that I got the occasional calves really really stuck, and got rid of the bull responsible quickly, but that then, his daughters would throw up the odd one, usually with disastrous results.

As for behavioural traits...i'll stick with pure bred thanks.

Yes l can see the problems as well as the "advantages" (Inverted commas !) I have dealt with some lovely tame Sussex X cattle and had experience with some 'Loony Limmos' and l know which I would deal with. As for ease of calving on heifers we tended to stick with proven easy calving AA bulls ( After talking it over with Genus we avoided any N. American / Canadian bloodlines, no 'black Charolais' for us thank you very much ) But then we found that we had some really nice AA X heifers that we wanted to keep back for breeding but we were scratching our heads wondering what cross to put on those, which is why we tried a few Sussex, the resulting calves were lovely.

 

[Cowgirl]

Last evening, I checked the cows at about 7.40pm and a cow had signs she was starting so I came home(200m down lane) and went back at 9.20pm to find she had calved, calf was up and sucking! Now that has cost me very little in labour or angst!. Last year I helped only one of my 27 calving cows! The bulls are 'XP' Lincoln Red's and I have already bought my next bull! He will be delivered in September! He was the champion at the Autumn Sale!!
@Cowgirl My wife is from Paisley! We met in Ayrshire at a Countrylink weekend!
WB

Feel free to revisit any time!

 

[Cowgirl]

There 'P' and 'XP' Lincoln Red's. The P's are pure Lincoln Red like at South Ormsby Estate(Facebook) and St Fort(Website). The XP's have in them, a little continental blood done openly in the breed improvement scheme. Maine Anjou, Limousin, Chianina, and Blues were used in there background and then bred using a percentage system. The old boys that started used words like Majestic, Limithan and Chieftain in the names of the Bulls but this was slowly dropped! but if you go back in the pedigrees you can work out what they have in them most of the time. a very few of mine have a little South Devon in them and I have used family names on the female side to reflect this like, Sade, Sadira, Sandy and so on. You get the idea!! They can now hold there own in the Interbreed classes as was proved at the Royal Welsh this last year. Of course that is a judges opinion!!. Newstead farm(Facebook) is another example of a farm using Lincoln,s and box selling their beef. There are also some large herds at Sutton estates using Lincoln,s crossed with angus to get the premium but using the maternal traits of the Lincoln for ease of management.
WB

Can I ask more questions? What is the relationship like in your breed between breeders of the XP lines and those who choose to breed Ps? I suppose there are not too many Ps left - are they supported by the breed society and are they sold at society sales? Are they shown against their XP counterparts or do they have separate classes? How different are the two types to look at / weight wise? Are the Ps hardier / more feed efficient? Sorry I guess this is a bit off topic but if someone was considering the breed I guess they would have to know these things?

 

[Jonp]

Currently have HE x cows but not impressed with there Mothering in the first 24hrs and quite a bit of bag trouble. What replacements should I look at. Must be easy calving and fleshing.

I have Hereford x British Friesens..medium framed, live out all year, good milky mothers and very easy to handle. Put pedigree, easy calving Hereford on them. Calves are lovely and by 2 years old heifers are big strong girls ready to calf.

 

[egbert]

Yes l can see the problems as well as the "advantages" (Inverted commas !) I have dealt with some lovely tame Sussex X cattle and had experience with some 'Loony Limmos' and l know which I would deal with. As for ease of calving on heifers we tended to stick with proven easy calving AA bulls ( After talking it over with Genus we avoided any N. American / Canadian bloodlines, no 'black Charolais' for us thank you very much ) But then we found that we had some really nice AA X heifers that we wanted to keep back for breeding but we were scratching our heads wondering what cross to put on those, which is why we tried a few Sussex, the resulting calves were lovely.

I'm with you on the AA, and not knowing your situation, a middle of the road AA isn't a bad place to be, although once they're calving and in the system, a step up might be a SD as the next step, or a char as a terminal.

 

[Wolds Beef]

@Cowgirl Thanks for the invitation, my inlaws of nearly 27 years live in Edinburgh!! We still have farming friends in Renfrewshire! Now to answer your questions. The XP lines are shown but the P lines choose not to show. There are still several relatively large herds of P animals. 2 herds near me, and another at Kirton near Boston. Small pockets of P animals elsewhere and some semen still in stock. The present President once said there was no need for P's but I disagree as we may need to go back to them (if we have F & M or similar, Hope not) The only real difference is in there confirmation! XP are still hardy, easy feeding, easy calving,(depends on Management) animals. As said before they cross well with many other breeds but the Council did not think it useful to join any of the premium schemes. There are several herds producing high quality meat into box schemes or selling to local butchers who appreciate good beef. I understand there are over 50 animals booked in to the High Health sale on th23rd of March at Newark. Why don't you sort your shifts out and come down Cowgirl !!
WB

 

[Cowgirl]

@Cowgirl Thanks for the invitation, my inlaws of nearly 27 years live in Edinburgh!! We still have farming friends in Renfrewshire! Now to answer your questions. The XP lines are shown but the P lines choose not to show. There are still several relatively large herds of P animals. 2 herds near me, and another at Kirton near Boston. Small pockets of P animals elsewhere and some semen still in stock. The present President once said there was no need for P's but I disagree as we may need to go back to them (if we have F & M or similar, Hope not) The only real difference is in there confirmation! XP are still hardy, easy feeding, easy calving,(depends on Management) animals. As said before they cross well with many other breeds but the Council did not think it useful to join any of the premium schemes. There are several herds producing high quality meat into box schemes or selling to local butchers who appreciate good beef. I understand there are over 50 animals booked in to the High Health sale on th23rd of March at Newark. Why don't you sort your shifts out and come down Cowgirl !!
WB

Thank you @Wolds Beef!

 

[Johnbeer]

Have a mixed bunch in our shed running with blonde bull. What ever is sensibly priced at market is my policy. Never notice any difference between them. Last lot I bought was young British blue calves I bucket fed and have made nice quiet cows.

 

[bob_01]

@Wolds Beef are the Lincoln reds classed as easy calving because the calves are small or because they have a large calving capacity? Im after some high health maiden heifers that will calve a limousin embryo first calf then will run back with a lim or blue bull. Ive used dairy x blue in the past but i struggle to get high health ones.

 

[Wolds Beef]

@bob_01 I have sold some of my surplus heifers through Louth Market in Lincolnshire. They went to a local breeder, dealer, haulage contractor, who used them as recips for embryo's. because they are an easy calving breed. (Subject to the right management.) Some breeders have crossed to both breeds very well and as I said before, both breeds were used in the grading up scheme. I and the family will be at the sale with our branded gilet's. Have a word if you want. or talk to the breed secretary.
WB

 

[M-J-G]

A lot of people blame the Holstein for the ruination of the first cross suckler cow but i wouldn’t necessarily blame the breed, more how the system of how they are produced has changed. Back in the day when everyone remembers how great HerXFri cows were, how were they produced? Probably by running a batch of friesian heifers with a Hereford bull. Now how are they produced? By putting a beef bull on the bottom end of cows, ie the cows that have been lame, had mastitis or won’t go in calf first service, the heifers and better cows have all been served with sexed dairy semen. Is it any wonder that the beef cross heifers aren’t much good when their mothers weren’t good enough to breed a dairy replacement?!

I've been saying that for years.

 

[bob_01]

@Wolds Beef i will do my best to get across to newark for a good look around. Im not a fan of dairy x's so im going to try and source a good maternal suckler. Just trying to do my homework first so i dont end up with something unsuitable

 

[Wolds Beef]

@bob_01 I don't know whether you jinxed me!! This morning at 8.00am I walked in my crew to find a foot out of the back of a heifer. Rang the vet, he took over 3/4 of an hour to get to me, by which time I had had the jack on but fortunately not tried to hard! He felt and said oh it's dead but it will have to come out the side. Anyway to cut a long story short, he opened her up and put his hand in, grabbed a front leg, at which point the calf said he did not want to get out!!. He was a large bull calf but we got him out alive and mother and son are doing well. she has not yet worked out it his her calf but he is sucking unaided when she is haltered. No kicking or anything! Look forward to meeting you!. Where are you based?
WB

 

[shearerlad]

Totally agree. At the moment we have bluegreys, past couple of years I've put on some SimLuings.
The bluegreys don't cost much to keep

One of my shearing customers runs approx 100 blue grey cows with Charolais bulls.
Calves them in September/October and out winters on kale and straw/silage mix with creep for calves, wean at 7ish months. Bull calves inside and finished. Heifer calves grazed for first summer and come in to be finished as bulls go and create space. Cows are summered at their hill farm often grazing at 2500-3000 feet.

 

[shearerlad]

Another shearing customer contacted me yesterday. He is doing a MSC looking at the viability and sustainability of hill cows. He runs highlands and has been over in the west chatting to farmers running similar, to counter that he has asked me and some neighbours that run continent cross cows to contribute too. It will be interesting to read his thesis

 

[Woolless]

One of my shearing customers runs approx 100 blue grey cows with Charolais bulls.
Calves them in September/October and out winters on kale and straw/silage mix with creep for calves, wean at 7ish months. Bull calves inside and finished. Heifer calves grazed for first summer and come in to be finished as bulls go and create space. Cows are summered at their hill farm often grazing at 2500-3000 feet.

Interesting but I would query whether it would be more profitable to spring/summer calve?

 

[shearerlad]

Interesting but I would query whether it would be more profitable to spring/summer calve?

I know where you are coming from but you couldn’t expect a bull to work on that hill. It’s not steep, it’s damn near vertical!!

 

[Wolds Beef]

The numbers are out!! We have 16 Bulls, 41 Females and 12 embryo's at the High Health Multi breed sale at Newark on the 23rd March(No doubt @JP1 will keep an eye for the Catalogue!) You also have a choice of Simmental or Salers Cattle. That gives plenty of choice for those who want to dabble in Lincoln Red's. Females are excellent mothers and the Bulls will cross with anything to help give excellent meat. No doubt the catalogue will be available on several sites on the web or you can always contact the Breed office.
WB

 

[Old Tip]

How are your AAx WBS heifers doing @scholland i have a few luing x wbs heifers coming on and they look the the business so far. First one will calve in September

 

[scholland]

View attachment 772820 How are your AAx WBS heifers doing @scholland i have a few luing x wbs heifers coming on and they look the the business so far. First one will calve in September

Only aa cattle here, no wbs.