The Conviction Politician

[Ashtree]

from his own mouth

From the mouths of DUP

 

[jendan]

John McDonnell

After completing his Master of Science in Politics and Sociology at Birkbeck College, University of London,[10][11] he became a researcher and official with the National Union of Mineworkers from 1977–78, and later the Trades Union Congress from 1978–82. From 1985–87, he was head of the Policy Unit at Camden Borough Council, then chief executive of the Association of London Authorities from 1987–95 and the Association of London Government[12] from 1995–97.

Greater London Council (1981–1986)
In 1981, McDonnell was elected to the Greater London Council (GLC) as the member for Hayes and Harlington. He became the Chair of Finance, responsible for the GLC's £3,000,000,000 budget,[18] and was Ken Livingstone's deputy leader ... large-scale investment in public services; raising the issue of Ireland and arguing for a dialogue for peace; equal opportunities; police accountability. We set up a women's committee, an ethnic minorities committee".[6]

Livingstone removed McDonnell from the post of deputy leader in 1985, shortly after they came into conflict over the GLC's budget.

...

Irish Republican Army
In May 2003, he made controversial comments about the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA), saying: "It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA"


Far Left Extremist & Terrorist Sympathiser ... he's a scumbag.

You have just analysed why people voted for him and Corbyn,and written part of their next election manifesto on another thread!

 

[Walterp]

(1) Massive stockpiles (a lot of which was imported ) of coal before the strike ( the Tory government had plans to take on a major union, most likely the NUM, well before the strike had started.) Plus the year long strike itself, must have accelerated the industries demise.
(2) Waste of space. ( Not unlike WAG )
(3) You remind me of that ghastly Welsh actor Kenneth Griffith.....an IRA supporter.
" The IRA never bombed our Celtic cousins ".
" But what about that bomb in Cardiff ? "
" It was only a small one, so it didn't count. "

Take a wider view:

1. The decline of the UK deep mine sector has its roots on geology, history pre-nationalisation, and the Ezra/Gormley era economic measures which failed to modernise it sufficiently.

Scapegoating is never attractive - why do you object to so viscerally to unionisation of workers?

In the Tolpuddle dispute, would you choose to be a farmer or a labourer?

2. Devolution has benefited Scotland, N Ireland and Wales, as the mayoralty has benefited London - more have since been established across England, which confirms their success.

The only people I have heard disparage it, in any of these countries, is a handful of farmers on TFF. Why is this, when these democratic institutions are successful?

3. You haven't answered the question about the IRA and present-day Northern Ireland.

Personally, I wouldn't - a short memory is a blessing.

 

[Walterp]

Careful rubbing your hands it might cause some static electric and ignite your breath because to defend the ira after what they have done you must be on the drink early

I'll take that as a 'don't know' then.

It was a tough question, but you really ought to have attempted it.

Here's a better attempt, for you and the poisonous dwarf:

Nations that have endured a civil war can choose one of four ways to deal with the aftermath:

(1) they can undergo a period of bloody retribution, such as the Mugabe/ZanuPF massacres of their black political opponents in Matabele Land, killing tens of thousands in order to destroy the support base of Joshua N'Komo after Lancaster House - the treaty, not the Brexit speech.

(2) symbolic retribution only, whilst leaving most of the population untouched. England's solution, after the Civil War, in exhuming Cromwell in order to posthumously execute him and re-bury him in a dung-heap, helped guarantee long-lasting peace. (Trust me, Cromwell didn't feel a thing).

(3) investigate and exonerate - the peace and reconciliation tribunals of Portugal and South Africa.

(4) no retribution at all, but a 'pact of forgetting' in order to allow peaceful cohabitation - seen in Spain, France, Germany and Northern Ireland.

Number (4) is best.

To test this approach, try asking your French landlord about the First World War battles, and he'll be effusive in his description of Verdun, etc. But ask him about 1939/45 and, although it is within living memory, he cannot recall anything much. Same in Germany.

Cf. the UK, which is the only country in the world to have made several successful TV comedies about this era - is this a Good Idea, that the last positive memory the English have of their country is World War Two?

 

[rob1]

I'll take that as a 'don't know' then.

It was a tough question, but you really ought to have attempted it.

why should he, you never answer a hard question

 

[turbo]

I'll take that as a 'don't know' then.

It was a tough question, but you really ought to have attempted it.

To the best of my knowlage the DUP havnt killed anyone on mainland Britian ,you carnt say the same about the IRA but knowing you it will all of been the English fault anyway.

 

[Walterp]

To the best of my knowlage the DUP havnt killed anyone on mainland Britian ,you carnt say the same about the IRA but knowing you it will all of been the English fault anyway.

It's OK if it's not on the mainland?

Really?

You'll be suggesting that the NUM closed its own mines down, next....

 

[turbo]

I'll take that as a 'don't know' then.

It was a tough question, but you really ought to have attempted it.

Here's a better attempt, for you and the poisonous dwarf:

Nations that have endured a civil war can choose one of four ways to deal with the aftermath:

(1) they can undergo a period of bloody retribution, such as the Mugabe/ZanuPF massacres of their black political opponents in Matabele Land, killing tens of thousands in order to destroy the support base of Joshua N'Komo after Lancaster House - the treaty, not the Brexit speech.

(2) symbolic retribution only, whilst leaving most of the population untouched. England's solution, after the Civil War, in exhuming Cromwell in order to posthumously execute him and re-bury him in a dung-heap, helped guarantee long-lasting peace.

(3) investigate and exonerate - the peace and reconciliation tribunals of Portugal and South Africa.

(4) no retribution at all, but a 'pact of forgetting' in order to allow peaceful cohabitation - seen in Spain, France, Germany and Northern Ireland.

Number (4) is best.

4 Spain your having a laugh

 

[Walterp]

4 Spain your having a laugh

In fact, the 'Pacto del Olvido' in 1975 is the basis of modern Spanish democracy.

Cf. Portugal, which attempted (3).

It explains precisely why the Rule Of Law is uniquely important, and delicate, in Spain. Attempts to subvert it, as in Catalonia, present very difficult problems.

 

[Ashtree]

(2) symbolic retribution only, whilst leaving most of the population untouched. England's solution, after the Civil War, in exhuming Cromwell in order to posthumously execute him and re-bury him in a dung-heap, helped guarantee long-lasting peace. (Trust me, Cromwell didn't feel a thing).?

If any fudger deserved burying in a dung heap he did.

 

[Walterp]

If any fudger deserved burying in a dung heap he did.

There is some historical controversy, but it is generally accepted that Cromwell was disinterred, and the corpse hung at Tyburn, then cut down and beheaded. The trunk was displayed on a pike, prior to being thrown into a hole.

No one knows the whereabouts of Cromwell's head.

As a useful comparison, since we have so many afficianados of Spanish history on TFF, Franco is buried on the site of a Civil War era mass grave, in a gilded tomb. There are movements to dis-interr him, last I heard.

'El Valle de los Caidos' (The Valley of The Fallen) near Madrid, complete with a sculpture of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse:

 

[fudge]

Unfortunately for the Irish, the English needed some sort of Cromwell. The monarchy had it coming, the divine “right” to rule wasn’t tolerable. Charles 1 was a bit like modern day Tories come to think of it.

 

[The Agrarian]

Would you care to explain the distinction between Theresa May's Coalition partners (the DUP) and Sinn Fein (with whom the resty are also in coalition in the NI Assembly)?

Which are 'murdering scum..'?


[Walterp smiles, rubs his hands and awaits an exposition on this most interesting distinction].

I can scarcely believe I'm reading this! And I thought you were a learnèd fellow...

Shocking.

I'd personally put the DUP somewhere near the level of UKIP. Some hold views that are very far to the right. Some you just won't like, or respect. Murderers and terrorists they are not. Because in the seventies and eighties the DUP operated on the fringe of mainstream politics, they naturally attracted some undesirables, who may or may not have been involved in paramilitarism. It's hardly surprising, given that Paisley made his name rabble-rousing. He did this partly because he thought that if he shouted loudly enough, he could invoke a large enough public response to make the British government think twice, and partly because he loved the attention and had ambitions to be the Edward Carson of his day. Though he was skilled on the public platform, he had neither the brains, the skills nor the strategy to be a leader like Carson. It was a different age too. What he did manage was to help incite some vulnerable young lads from working class areas with his irresponsible tactics. As for threats to defend Ulster with life or force, well that was mostly hot air, and you'll really struggle to find anyone important in the DUP that was involved in anything other than a scuffle or hot air displays. More recently it has moved closer to the centre to take up the void left by the collapsing Ulster Unionist party.

Sinn Fein, on the other hand... well you know very well what it is and what it was created for - to give the gun and the bomb a public face.

The moral equivalent of Sinn Fein is one or two tiny Loyalist parties, with literally a handful of supporters, which you won't even have heard of.

 

[DrWazzock]

Neither McDonnell nor Corbyn pass the "proper job" test IMO.

Never did a proper job in their lives.

Perpetual whinging student researcher types always with some kind of grievance.

Craven opportunists doing all they can to impede Brexit for their own personal political gain as usual. Corbyn was always anti EU, so why isn't he fully backing Brexit now? Some conviction politician he is. What a joke, more like blowing with the wind.

People aren't that daft.

 

[wanton dwarf]

I'll take that as a 'don't know' then.

It was a tough question, but you really ought to have attempted it.

Here's a better attempt, for you and the poisonous dwarf:

Nations that have endured a civil war can choose one of four ways to deal with the aftermath:

(1) they can undergo a period of bloody retribution, such as the Mugabe/ZanuPF massacres of their black political opponents in Matabele Land, killing tens of thousands in order to destroy the support base of Joshua N'Komo after Lancaster House - the treaty, not the Brexit speech.

(2) symbolic retribution only, whilst leaving most of the population untouched. England's solution, after the Civil War, in exhuming Cromwell in order to posthumously execute him and re-bury him in a dung-heap, helped guarantee long-lasting peace. (Trust me, Cromwell didn't feel a thing).

(3) investigate and exonerate - the peace and reconciliation tribunals of Portugal and South Africa.

(4) no retribution at all, but a 'pact of forgetting' in order to allow peaceful cohabitation - seen in Spain, France, Germany and Northern Ireland.

Number (4) is best.

To test this approach, try asking your French landlord about the First World War battles, and he'll be effusive in his description of Verdun, etc. But ask him about 1939/45 and, although it is within living memory, he cannot recall anything much. Same in Germany.

Cf. the UK, which is the only country in the world to have made several successful TV comedies about this era - is this a Good Idea, that the last positive memory the English have of their country is World War Two?

You've again set the stage and listed a number of options to constrain the arguments to your limited references and your very biased opinions.

I don't agree with your attempts to justify your approval of terrorism & those who support terrorists.



"the last positive memory the English have of their country is World War Two?"

I just cannot relate to this at all. You really have a massive chip on your shoulder.

During Brtipop I thought the UK was brilliant ... various concerts of UK musicians such as Queen ... during my career around the world the very significant number of UK people working throughout the world dominating the field of work ... and of course there have been multiple times the UK has come together.

Most English I think never have really identified as English but UK. I think given people like you are are quite frankly hatefully nationalistic & anti English .. who knows if you can spread it wide enough you might stand a chance of turning us all to what you castigate us with ... but then again I know some nice Scottish & Welsh people - my neighbours are Scottiish & they are lovely. I also have a cousin in Wales and she is also very nice.

I think you are constantly seeking to find a chip in the armour of the English Psyche.

 

[wanton dwarf]

You have just analysed why people voted for him and Corbyn,and written part of their next election manifesto on another thread!

The reason I haven't bothered to reply is I actually don't understand your point.

Liebour went through a period of lying for about a decade, which culminated in the Iraq War.

Not only have they lied but they have used policy to get rich & undermine the very people who used to vote for them ... they now openly rely on the immigration vote.

Why would anyone vote for a group of people who lied against most people in the UK ? I see no evidence of them even trying to get Tony Bliar & his cabinet convicted. Nor do I see any recognition that 125% mortgages, self certification, PFI, student loans & buy-to-let caused the financial crash ... far from it I see the complete opposite.

It doesn't matter what Liebour put in their manifesto.

 

[jendan]

The reason I haven't bothered to reply is I actually don't understand your point.

Liebour went through a period of lying for about a decade, which culminated in the Iraq War.

Not only have they lied but they have used policy to get rich & undermine the very people who used to vote for them ... they now openly rely on the immigration vote.

Why would anyone vote for a group of people who lied against most people in the UK ? I see no evidence of them even trying to get Tony Bliar & his cabinet convicted. Nor do I see any recognition that 125% mortgages, self certification, PFI, student loans & buy-to-let caused the financial crash ... far from it I see the complete opposite.

It doesn't matter what Liebour put in their manifesto.

You cant see the irony in your posts or the wood from the trees.It matters hugely what Labour and the Tories put in their manifestos and what they tell the voters,whether its true,or lies or not.Corbyn got 12,878,000 votes,to Mays 13,669,000 at the last election.Not much in it was there? so theres a lot of idiots out there which ever way you look at it.

 

[wanton dwarf]

You cant see the irony in your posts or the wood from the trees.It matters hugely what Labour and the Tories put in their manifestos and what they tell the voters,whether its true,or lies or not.Corbyn got 12,878,000 votes,to Mays 13,669,000 at the last election.Not much in it was there? so theres a lot of idiots out there which ever way you look at it.

See manifestos are just talking points which you can use to assess the honesty & direction of the political party ... but when you come from the basis of dishonesty what have you got ?

They are not legal documents and quite frankly whatever is put in isn't necessarily possible nor even of any major significance during the term.

I'll give you some key points here:

1) Mass immigration ... not in the manifesto. 5+ million people in the UK with the associated costs. Housing alone will take 25+ years to pay for.
2) Financial bailout ... not in the manifesto. £400 Billion spent and more on buying banks and more on stimulous and lowest ever interest rates. Banks haven't paid taxes yet I think but they are paying bonuses ... how many MPs have family in these banks ?
3) Iraq War ... not in the manifesto.
4) Libya War ... same
5) HS2 ... all parties voted for HS2 so no choice. £50+ Billion

Let's take Brexit ... was there any mention of any payments ? any commitments ? interim membership ? anything about UK armed forces combining with EU forces as has recently been discussed in a meeting that didn't even make it into the press ?

I don't think there are lots of idiots. I think there is a lot of people with no choice. I also think at least 50% of people could do a far better job.