The Cross slot vs 750a trial

[dontknowanything]

Maybe.

There's only one maybe, which is "why did the drill have such a big effect at the light end".

The fact that the drill made a difference there is basically undeniable with such a low p value. (Assuming the test was carried out properly, which I believe to be the case).

 

[D14]

There's only one maybe, which is "why did the drill have such a big effect at the light end".

The fact that the drill made a difference there is basically undeniable with such a low p value. (Assuming the test was carried out properly, which I believe to be the case).

I have not looked at all the data but surely the question is overall profitability isn't it?

3 drills produced 'x' tonnes each on a small trial. Now put that into context over say 1000 arable acres. Forget about drill widths as the important thing is still cost. I doubt there's any point you buying a 750 and certainly no point buying a CS. If your co yielded less than the others, so what as its costs you nothing really to own any more.

So really the trial should of been, or has actually, been about a drills that's owes you nothing, a drill which costs about £50,000 and a drill which costs about £150,000.

The answer is that the drill which owes you nothing or like Clive would cost no more than £10,000 to get into has produced the best profit.

 

[dontknowanything]

I have not looked at all the data but surely the question is overall profitability isn't it?

3 drills produced 'x' tonnes each on a small trial. Now put that into context over say 1000 arable acres. Forget about drill widths as the important thing is still cost. I doubt there's any point you buying a 750 and certainly no point buying a CS. If your co yielded less than the others, so what as its costs you nothing really to own any more.

So really the trial should of been, or has actually, been about a drills that's owes you nothing, a drill which costs about £50,000 and a drill which costs about £150,000.

The answer is that the drill which owes you nothing or like Clive would cost no more than £10,000 to get into has produced the best profit.

I agree with the principal, but your specifics are wrong.

Let's say the 750a always produces 0.4t/ha more wheat. We grow 400ha of wheat a year, so that's 160t more production. At £110/t that will be an extra £17,600/year profit. Cost difference between a second hand CO6 and a new 750a is about £60,000.

So the payback on buying a new 750a would be less than four years, in this hypothetical and very unlikely situation.

 

[D14]

I agree with the principal, but your specifics are wrong.

Let's say the 750a always produces 0.4t/ha more wheat. We grow 400ha of wheat a year, so that's 160t more production. At £110/t that will be an extra £17,600/year profit. Cost difference between a second hand CO6 and a new 750a is about £60,000.

So the payback on buying a new 750a would be less than four years, in this hypothetical and very unlikely situation.

Exactly so I think we can all agree that there won't be a yield increase from the 750 over CS/CO long term, so it brings you back to running the cheapest drill doesn't it!

That then brings in all other drills on the market that will go direct into stubble or chopped straw so buy on price alone surely?

No point buying a £60,000 750 when you can buy a £10,000 CO which over 10 yrs will give you the same yield results. As Clive says it's the management of the system not the drill that makes no till work or not work.

That then begs the question why are CS even in business as there's no point even considering one!

And before anybody says the same applies with combines and tractors. No it doesn't because look at MF combines - they are rubbish.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Exactly so I think we can all agree that there won't be a yield increase from the 750 over CS/CO long term,

I'm sorry you fail to grasp the trial results.

I think there is broad agreement that the JD may not produce a yield increase long term, also it may produce a yield increase long term.

You simply can't say one way or the other on one years results, but there is a greater likelihood of an increase just by virtue the running average is significantly set in the JD's favour.

 

[D14]

I'm sorry you fail to grasp the trial results.

I think there is broad agreement that the JD may not produce a yield increase long term, also it may produce a yield increase long term.

You simply can't say one way or the other on one years results, but there is a greater likelihood of an increase just by virtue the running average is significantly set in the JD's favour.

I'd say you have failed to grasp it because even the person who's done the trial has said multiple times and with much scepticism that their probably won't be a consistent yield increase between one piece of metal and another.

 

[Will Blackburn]

I'd say you have failed to grasp it because even the person who's done the trial has said multiple times and with much scepticism that their probably won't be a consistent yield increase between one piece of metal and another.

A completely pointless trial then with completely pointless statistically significant results. A completely pointless thread in that case with completely pointless posts.

 

[dontknowanything]

No point buying a £60,000 750 when you can buy a £10,000 CO which over 10 yrs will give you the same yield results. As Clive says it's the management of the system not the drill that makes no till work or not work.

You'd only say that if you've never tried direct drilling with a tine drill. Fine a lot of the time, but say hello to Mr Bindweed

Or any number of other things which are impenetrable with a tine

 

[dontknowanything]

I'd say you have failed to grasp it because even the person who's done the trial has said multiple times and with much scepticism that their probably won't be a consistent yield increase between one piece of metal and another.

I said it's possibly not repeatable, and I also said that row width needs considering. I do believe you're likely to get higher yields over the long term with rows narrower than the 250mm that the CO8 uses.

 

[D14]

I said it's possibly not repeatable, and I also said that row width needs considering. I do believe you're likely to get higher yields over the long term with rows narrower than the 250mm that the CO8 uses.

Ok so tines and bindweed won't work. So remove the word 'co' and replace with a £10,000 Moore disc drill. You would get the same outcome so back to the point that the cheapest drill offers the most profit. If you want to pay for a £150,000 CS fine but it looks guaranteed the farmer with the £10,000 Moore will make profit per acre

 

[dontknowanything]

Ok so tines and bindweed won't work. So remove the word 'co' and replace with a £10,000 Moore disc drill. You would get the same outcome so back to the point that the cheapest drill offers the most profit. If you want to pay for a £150,000 CS fine but it looks guaranteed the farmer with the £10,000 Moore will make profit per acre

I don't know, I haven't tried a Moore.

I do not think though that it is valid to say all drills are equal. Both the 750a and Cross Slot are good machines, that will work in many situations. Does that mean anything will? No, of course not, otherwise I'd make something in the shed for £500...

 

[D14]

I don't know, I haven't tried a Moore.

I do not think though that it is valid to say all drills are equal. Both the 750a and Cross Slot are good machines, that will work in many situations. Does that mean anything will? No, of course not, otherwise I'd make something in the shed for £500...

Ok maybe I've explained badly. Forget about the makes of drills for a minute. You then have a drill that costs £150,000 down to a drill that costs £10,000. The difference in subsequent yield from each drill is questionable to say the very least at the moment because the trial has one set of result thus far (if you ran the same trial for 10 yrs with continuous results in one drills favour then fair enough).

So with your farm which of the two examples would be the most profitable for you per acre with minimal difference in yields?

 

[dontknowanything]

Ok maybe I've explained badly. Forget about the makes of drills for a minute. You then have a drill that costs £150,000 down to a drill that costs £10,000. The difference in subsequent yield from each drill is questionable to say the very least at the moment because the trial has one set of result thus far (if you ran the same trial for 10 yrs with continuous results in one drills favour then fair enough).

So with your farm which of the two examples would be the most profitable for you per acre with minimal difference in yields?

Obviously if two things are identical other than price you'd go for the cheapest. I don't believe that's the case though.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Ok so tines and bindweed won't work. So remove the word 'co' and replace with a £10,000 Moore disc drill. You would get the same outcome so back to the point that the cheapest drill offers the most profit. If you want to pay for a £150,000 CS fine but it looks guaranteed the farmer with the £10,000 Moore will make profit per acre

I run a £6k 750 and it works fine and will produce a crop the same as any other and drills 500 acre a year.That said i will upgrade to a new one in a few years even though it will cost me near 30k.

Why? Metal fatigue and wear on the old one and more accurate seeding. It wont make me more money but it will be make me happy, which in essence is what we all do when we trade drills.

 

[Simon Chiles]

I It wont make me more money

It might. Bigger hopper capacity, the ablility to drill up to the last kg ( instead of needing at least half a cwt across the bottom of the hopper ), easier to swap crops, and easier to adjust will all contribute to better timeliness which IMO is the most important factor in crop establishment. Coupled with better boot design ( less sidewall compaction ) and you could easily improve your crop establishment. Old fogeys like me will tell you that well sown is half grown.

 

[SilliamWhale]

It might. Bigger hopper capacity, the ablility to drill up to the last kg ( instead of needing at least half a cwt across the bottom of the hopper ), easier to swap crops, and easier to adjust will all contribute to better timeliness which IMO is the most important factor in crop establishment. Coupled with better boot design ( less sidewall compaction ) and you could easily improve your crop establishment. Old fogeys like me will tell you that well sown is half grown.

Yes ability to control seed rate better would help a bit.

 

[ajd132]

How long will an already 10-15 year old CO last when direct drilling as a mainline drill on a large acerage?

 

[dontknowanything]

How long will an already 10-15 year old CO last when direct drilling as a mainline drill on a large acerage?

5 years, 3 months, 22 days, 14 hours and 57 seconds

 

[mikep]

5 years, 3 months, 22 days, 14 hours and 57 seconds

Allowing how many leap years?

 

[Clive]

How long will an already 10-15 year old CO last when direct drilling as a mainline drill on a large acerage?

If maintained well many, many years I guess, its only a very simple lump of metal after all ?

our project drill has come of a big German unit and has probably drilled many 10's of thousands of hectares already at 10 years old but still looks fine and like it could do another 10 easy

one positive thing with the narrow point is draft is significantly reduced from what it's frames etc was design for so its now probably quite over engineered for its new purpose