The Cross slot vs 750a trial

[dontknowanything]

I think this is correct. The conditions that we were drilling in in the last few weeks would have been very interesting to see it working in. Sticky and with lots of chopped straw. Sumo was really struggling with hair pinning and the Dale was just struggling with trash flow and seed coverage. I was thinking of @SilliamWhale's point about wet soil not being a problem. If you could have magicked the seed into the soil I think it would grow well. Problem is the amount of smearing and blockages with strip till drills and tine drills, and the amount of hair pinning with disc drills mean that hasn't been possible in all the examples I've seen.

Looking at the press wheel on the CS I think they could just bung up with mud.

I'm curious as to how the headlands will come up in this trial. They had already been drilled with the CO8 but the soil was pretty damp. The CS tyres are not very big, and each one is carrying at least 6t. I hope they don't show up.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Quite. As I discussed briefly at the end, the obvious benefits of the CS are wasted on me. That really leaves yield as being the deciding factor, and for that we will have to wait another 9 months.

One benefit is youd be able to use the club crossslot hashtag more on twitter! Dont discount what being part of a club has on the self esteem sometimes, its great marketing.

 

[Will Blackburn]

One benefit is youd be able to use the club crossslot hashtag more on twitter! Dont discount what being part of a club has on the self esteem sometimes, its great marketing.

It's a bit of a twitter turn off for me as well. Only so much you can learn from dd newbies.

 

[Louis Mc]

It's a bit of a twitter turn off for me as well. Only so much you can learn from dd newbies.

You can learn from anyone. I wouldn't hold a hashtag against them

 

[tyrolens]

how much power would it take to pull a 6m CS at 13kph on this field? Must be over 400?

Baker made a huge mistake in marketing, when they claimed, that the CS could be pulled with high speeds.
At 5 km/h, the CS doesn't require more pulling power than a 750A. At higher speeds, this changes drastically.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Baker made a huge mistake in marketing, when they claimed, that the CS could be pulled with high speeds.
At 5 km/h, the CS doesn't require more pulling power than a 750A. At higher speeds, this changes drastically.

Why would you want to travel at 5km/hr? You wouldn't get anything done

 

[RTK Farmer]

It's a bit of a twitter turn off for me as well. Only so much you can learn from dd newbies.

Thoughts and experencies freely shared by others (newbies or not) are always of interest here and certainly not undervalued by a # tag. Pleased we are still part of a industry happy to do this for the wider interest and information of others, it would be a boring place without it.

 

[jaan14141]

In Est one travels 13kmh with JD 8370 and 31 opener CS, says only limiter where the drills seed metering system.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Thoughts and experencies freely shared by others (newbies or not) are always of interest here and certainly not undervalued by a # tag. Pleased we are still part of a industry happy to do this for the wider interest and information of others, it would be a boring place without it.

I wasn't referring to here, on twitter you have pics or videos of new drills and so many characters, saying woo hoo high 5's everybody I'm in the club. I'm more interested in say, dursban is being revoked how can we managed where we feel it was essential before?

 

[dontknowanything]

In Est one travels 13kmh with JD 8370 and 31 opener CS, says only limiter where the drills seed metering system.

Sorry, but what one machine does in isolation is totally irrelevant in the context of this thread.

 

[tyrolens]

Why would you want to travel at 5km/hr? You wouldn't get anything done

Get a drill with larger working width.
5 km/h is a common working speed. Less wearing, less seed bounce, less fuel/ha.

At 5 km/h, you need ~ 100 daN to pull one single CS opener, at 10 km/h, you need ~ 400 daN. Doubled speed -> quadrupled drag force.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Get a drill with larger working width.
5 km/h is a common working speed. Less wearing, less seed bounce, less fuel/ha.

At 5 km/h, you need ~ 100 daN to pull one single CS opener, at 10 km/h, you need ~ 400 daN. Doubled speed -> quadrupled drag force.

But that would make an even more expensive drill if you had a wider working width to cover the ground in time? Whilst physically covering less area per metre and then sitting in the shed for 345 days a year?

 

[dontknowanything]

Get a drill with larger working width.
5 km/h is a common working speed. Less wearing, less seed bounce, less fuel/ha.

At 5 km/h, you need ~ 100 daN to pull one single CS opener, at 10 km/h, you need ~ 400 daN. Doubled speed -> quadrupled drag force.

Sometimes I have to laugh.

Let's work this one through:

On the trial the 6m 750a was going 13kph.

To match the output at 5kph we need a drill 2.6 (13/5) times wider.

That means a 15.6m Cross Slot.

At UK spec (around £25,000/m according to latest info) that makes it a £390,000 drill.

We also have the small question of weight...2t per meter makes for a 31.2t machine. The mind boggles as to what sort of tractor would be needed just to pull such a heavy beast, let alone with 65 CS openers in the ground as well. Maybe two in line crawlers like that 60m drill on youtube?

So a £390,000 31t drill vs £70,000 6t? I think it's worth admitting here that a CS will never match the output of a single disc drill like a 750a.

 

[dug]

Sometimes I have to laugh.

Let's work this one through:

On the trial the 6m 750a was going 13kph.

To match the output at 5kph we need a drill 2.6 (13/5) times wider.

That means a 15.6m Cross Slot.

At UK spec (around £25,000/m according to latest info) that makes it a £390,000 drill.

We also have the small question of weight...2t per meter makes for a 31.2t machine. The mind boggles as to what sort of tractor would be needed just to pull such a heavy beast, let alone with 65 CS openers in the ground as well. Maybe two in line crawlers like that 60m drill on youtube?

So a £390,000 31t drill vs £70,000 6t? I think it's worth admitting here that a CS will never match the output of a single disc drill like a 750a.

You've done your numbers there based on 5 kph, a number someone has plucked out of the air to make their point.... fair enough. But I don't think a job where a 750 setup is doing 13 is going to limit the CS setup to 5 tbh. Drilling cereals on hilly terrain is going to be the slowest type of work for the CS IMO.

I do agree with the point someone made re Baker and the speed thing, it takes a disproportionate amount of power to pull implements as speed increases and he has always promoted this ability to drill at higher speeds.

 

[dontknowanything]

You've done your numbers there based on 5 kph, a number someone has plucked out of the air to make their point.... fair enough. But I don't think a job where a 750 setup is doing 13 is going to limit the CS setup to 5 tbh. Drilling cereals on hilly terrain is going to be the slowest type of work for the CS IMO.

I do agree with the point someone made re Baker and the speed thing, it takes a disproportionate amount of power to pull implements as speed increases and he has always promoted this ability to drill at higher speeds.

Don't get me wrong, I'd never suggest getting a drill size that limited you to that speed. I was only demonstrating that suggesting it's a good idea is perhaps a little flawed.

 

[tyrolens]

I didn't write, that that's the way to go, but don't try to compensate a too small working width with higher working speed.
A friend of mine pulls his 3 m CS (19 openers) with a 185 hp tractor. He doesn't travel with 5 km/h, but also not with 15 km/h. This kit is good for nearly 500 ha per year, so a 6 m CS pulled with a 370 hp tractor could be fine for 1.000 ha. Change the row spacing from 16 cm to 20 cm and you could use a 300 hp tractor.

When working with the CS, just take a look at the speedo. Most times, you are going by far faster than expected.

 

[marco]

In Est one travels 13kmh with JD 8370 and 31 opener CS, says only limiter where the drills seed metering system.

Sorry, but what one machine does in isolation is totally irrelevant in the context of this thread.

I'm sure all 31opener cs drills pulled by 8370 jds can travel 13kph. so its hardly irrelevant.

 

[dontknowanything]

I'm sure all 31opener cs drills pulled by 8370 jds can travel 13kph. so its hardly irrelevant.

It's not relevant because who knows what the field is like, and that can make a huge difference.

For example, Clive says his drill uses 3l/ha. I'm sure he's right, but in this trial it was doing over 5.

Unless the two machines are in the same field on the same day you can't really compare, which is the whole point of this thread/trial.

 

[Tom Sewell]

I find it hilarious that so many non CS owners are justifying NOT buying one!! What a waste of your precious time! I really don't care what others think of my business decisions. Make your own choices, stick by them and make them work. As for output there are some seriously smart farmers out there (not me!) planning (and achieving) 4000ac + from one 6m cs drill!! Also remember every farm is different, every set of financials different then factor in age, availability and ability of staff, politics, replacements, soil types, cropping and that doesn't even cover most issues. It's a far more complex argument than just cost. But if you want cheapest cost per acre buy a 750a. They are very good drills and will work well. Seems some choose tine option and others like cross slots. Big deal!! Variety as they say is the spice of life!!
Enjoy today. Cheers Tom

 

[dontknowanything]

No need to get defensive Tom!

The reason I did this (and paid for the privilege) was so that I could see on my farm what the difference is. I could never justify spending that sort of premium on a piece of machinery without having a direct comparison, because as you say every farm is different. Anything else would not be a sound business decision IMO, or perhaps it would be better to say I'm not prepared to take that much risk.

That the 750a is cheaper per hectare is obviously without doubt. Whether it's better value is less clear, that's what I'm hoping to discover next harvest.

As for blogging about it, obviously not necessary. But it's fairly clear that plenty of others are interested in the results too, so why not?! If you and or anyone else doesn't care, then I'm not going to get upset if you ignore it!