The Dublin Declaration

[delilah]

Have you not read it?

Just read the first two paragraphs and got to this:

At the same time, some methods and scale of animal production systems present challenges with regards to biodiversity, climate change and nutrient flows, as well as animal health and welfare within a broad One Health approach.

I'm out.

 

[Macsky]

Just read the first two paragraphs and got to this:

At the same time, some methods and scale of animal production systems present challenges with regards to biodiversity, climate change and nutrient flows, as well as animal health and welfare within a broad One Health approach.

I'm out.

What’s wrong with that?

 

[onesiedale]

Just read the first two paragraphs and got to this:

At the same time, some methods and scale of animal production systems present challenges with regards to biodiversity, climate change and nutrient flows, as well as animal health and welfare within a broad One Health approach.

I'm out.

why?

 

[delilah]

What’s wrong with that?

why?

Really ?

You have sought to reassure that this report doesn't look disparagingly on certain systems. And then when I start reading it, within 30 seconds it does precisely that.

 

[Macsky]

Really ?

You have sought to reassure that this report doesn't look disparagingly on certain systems. And then when I start reading it, within 30 seconds it does precisely that.

‘Disparagingly’ is maybe exaggerating it slightly. This has to appeal to scientists, who like to improve things, if you made a declaration saying animal ag is practically perfect in every way, how many serious academics do you think would put their name to it? It’s not a propaganda piece

 

[onesiedale]

Really ?

You have sought to reassure that this report doesn't look disparagingly on certain systems. And then when I start reading it, within 30 seconds it does precisely that.

all that was done was state the obvious;
that if a broad one system/one health approach is taken, then it will present challenges to some systems of animal production.
I read that as being an acknowledgement that any policies should be inclusive of all systems, because they are all integral to food production.

 

[Muddyroads]

Just read the first two paragraphs and got to this:

At the same time, some methods and scale of animal production systems present challenges with regards to biodiversity, climate change and nutrient flows, as well as animal health and welfare within a broad One Health approach.

I'm out.

Bye bye then.
That’s like saying that a 400 acre field of wheat is just as good for biodiversity etc. as a 4 or 40 acre field.

 

[JockCroft]

Just read the first two paragraphs and got to this:

At the same time, some methods and scale of animal production systems present challenges with regards to biodiversity, climate change and nutrient flows, as well as animal health and welfare within a broad One Health approach.

I'm out.

Please take time and read it all.
It is the closest to a balanced view that I have seen.
Maybe parts of Agriculture have become a bit too intensive for the good of the industry, the environment and those who work in it.

 

[delilah]

Bye bye then.
That’s like saying that a 400 acre field of wheat is just as good for biodiversity etc. as a 4 or 40 acre field.

Because of the hedges ?

So, as an organic producer, you are saying that 10 forty acre fields, farmed intensively, are as good for biodiversity as one 400 acre field, farmed organically with beetle banks and all that jazz ?

See. Within 30 seconds you can drive a coach and horses through any attempt to make out that some systems are better than others.

Which makes anyone who thinks that pursuing a policy of 'better meat' is somehow good for the industry, utterly insane.

 

[delilah]

This has to appeal to scientists, who have to keep coming up with angles, to keep the research money rolling in.

Edited for you

 

[delilah]

Maybe parts of Agriculture have become a bit too intensive for the good of the industry, the environment and those who work in it.

As said, the first two paras were enough for me.

Tell you what, I will read it if you can point me to a report about 'better beetroot'. Because have you seen what they do to soil to grow beetroot ? They smash it to hell and back.

 

[Macsky]

Edited for you

Agree, but I’d rather they were making it trying to improve animal ag than trying to destroy it altogether!

 

[Muddyroads]

Because of the hedges ?

So, as an organic producer, you are saying that 10 forty acre fields, farmed intensively, are as good for biodiversity as one 400 acre field, farmed organically with beetle banks and all that jazz ?

See. Within 30 seconds you can drive a coach and horses through any attempt to make out that some systems are better than others.

Which makes anyone who thinks that pursuing a policy of 'better meat' is somehow good for the industry, utterly insane.

Can you point us towards something better then please?

 

[Macsky]

You’re impossible @delilah , I get annoyed with myself for being too critical/cynical from time to time, but you take the biscuit.

What would you suggest would be a better, actually achievable way of countering the vegan brigade?

 

[Bald Rick]

Everyone has an agenda.

I see the Irish are behind this report …Don’t need to read the report - grazing beef best

Am I right?

 

[JockCroft]

As said, the first two paras were enough for me.

Tell you what, I will read it if you can point me to a report about 'better beetroot'. Because have you seen what they do to soil to grow beetroot ? They smash it to hell and back.

Don't know nowt about growing beetroot, (no that's wrong as have grown it in the garden) but its similar to growing neeps. Yes the surface soil is broken to a very fine seed bed, but is structured with the subsurface being coursly cultivated to allow air and drainage. I had the analogy of a "Roman Road Construction" drummed into me when I started out working.
It would off course be part of a rotation, so only happen ever 6 or 7 years.
Soil is just like our livestock and need to be looked after. But you know that anyway.

I think the point is that finally there may just be a chance that there are Scientists who actually consider that they don't "have all the answers".

 

[onesiedale]

Everyone has an agenda.

I see the Irish are behind this report …Don’t need to read the report - grazing beef best

Am I right?

Or rather it is that they understand the true value of livestock farming to their economy, their environment and their social structure on a national scale.
They are seeing their livestock industry coming under threat from the continual and unjust opposition to it on the global front.
Perhaps our Unions, industry representative organisations and government should take note

 

[delilah]

Can you point us towards something better then please?

What would you suggest would be a better, actually achievable way of countering the vegan brigade?

Well, how about something that doesn't, right at the beginning, set its stall out by saying some systems are better for the environment than others ?

The attached is rubbish in its depth and layout. It has been thrown together by rank amateurs - that would be us lot on here - but at least it promotes all producers equally.

If us muppets can do that in our spare time, surely those we pay to represent our interests could do better ?

 

[Bald Rick]

Or rather it is that they understand the true value of livestock farming to their economy, their environment and their social structure on a national scale.
They are seeing their livestock industry coming under threat from the continual and unjust opposition to it on the global front.
Perhaps our Unions, industry representative organisations and government should take note

Yes … they have an agenda to protect their agriculture systems but the report isn’t a “one size fits all” so you are immediately marginalising other farming systems.

Whatever you think, you cannot diss @delilah for being right that our own representative bodies are doing a very poor job of arguing our side of the fence

 

[yin ewe]

Well, how about something that doesn't, right at the beginning, set its stall out by saying some systems are better for the environment than others ?

The attached is rubbish in its depth and layout. It has been thrown together by rank amateurs - that would be us lot on here - but at least it promotes all producers equally.

If us muppets can do that in our spare time, surely those we pay to represent our interests could do better ?

The leaflet is good, informative and well put together, but only talks about pasture fed livestock and grass systems, are intensive grain based systems not as good?
Is that not what you are accusing the Dublin declaration of saying?