- Location
- Cumbria
The great global warming scam, worth a listen I think.
- Thread starter banjo
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Old McDonald
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- Location
- Harray, Orkney
Ah, the non believers question. Deflect the discussion away from what is happening, just as you did with post #1298. What is the purpose of that in connection with a debate on GW?
For us humans the ideal temperature is a temperature at which we can survive. The temperature has been very stable for quite a few thousand years. You must remember @Farmer Roy posting the chart at #1290 showing just how stable it has been for 20,000 years.
You must also know that in your very short lifetime a change of a few tenths of a degree is a lot compared with the stability of the previous 20,000 years. You must also bear in mind the consequences for the millions of people living very close to present sea levels should temperatures continue to rise at the present rate. If they move they are going to have to move to somewhere that does not presently have the infrastructure for them. Should temperatures fall even 3 to 4ºC then only a very few of our species can survive.
How about naming a few of those "supposedly well educated people" who are supposedly talking about the sun not affecting the earths temperature? I am not aware of anyone making such a statement.
What is 0.02 apart from just a number, and what number would you use in your global warming model?
If we were in a closer orbit to the sun then we might not be hotter, or in an orbit further away we might not be colder. It would all depend on the consituency of any atmosphere of the planet. It is basic science!
Pedders
Member
- Location
- West Sussex
as its so basic and you're so clever would you care to elaborate on that assertion for us mere mortals .. exactly .how does the constituency of the atmosphere affect the temperature of the earth ... if you have a controlled atmosphere greenhouse does pumping in more Co2 make it hotter ?
Campani
Member
banjo
Member
- Location
- Back of beyond
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
I am not particularly clever. It is not necessary to be clever to understand basics. It is necessary to have a modicum of intelligence in order to understand things, and anyone capable of posting on a forum such as this has sufficient intelligence and more to understand how the constituency of a planet’s atmosphere affects its surface temperature.
I am educated in some matters. For several decades I have referred to myself as an educated peasant. You could be too if you cared to take the trouble to research things in which you are interested. Yes, that is rude, but so is posting what you did in a derogatory way instead of finding out things for yourself or asking politely. Similarly with banjo telling us it was just basic science, I merely posted back the same expression.
I am not going to give a lengthy post about how an atmosphere such as we have on earth works, how it partially permits energy from the sun in; partially retains it; partially reflects some before it reaches us and partially permits some to escape back into space. There is a plethora of information about that on the internet if anyone wants to find out and nobody would bother reading all of what I would need to post, or read the links I would need to post. I always feel my posts are too long anyway, but necessary to fully cover previously posted misinformation or multi-part comments such as yours. Neither do I have the great amount of time it would take to prepare. This post is long, and has taken quite some time to type. Whilst you asked in quite a rude way, it is only polite to answer you. A failure to do so would have resulted in some posters deciding I did not know what I was posting about.
@Campani had not posted the video link before I drafted this response this morning otherwise I could have saved some time, but since I have already done it, I might as well let it be repeated.
Throughout this thread I have posted some of the knowledge of others who are far more qualified in the subject than me. I have no scientific qualifications. A business degree and sundry professional ones, but I am not a scientist. That does not prevent me from understanding most of what I read. I do have the advantage of my son being a scientist in fields where he needs to have a fair bit of knowledge about climate and temperatures and I have sought clarification or an expanded explanation of things on many occasions.
I have learned a great deal about the earth, the sun, other planets and stars, and the earth’s atmosphere over the last 15 years. 15 years ago is when I moved to Portugal and realised that the situation, whilst being a little like the area where I farmed in Australia from a temperature point of view, has definite wet and dry seasons, and a colder winter. My Australian property experienced hotter and wetter summers in most years, but could also be in drought for prolonged periods. Here the summers are dry and there is always some rain during winter.
I felt I needed to learn more about the earth’s climate if I wanted to farm my land successfully. As an example, there were no orange trees here, yet there are lots in the village across the river, and in two others about 3 miles away in different directions. I wanted to know why. There are still no orange trees here. There is sufficient low temperature each winter that they do not thrive.
I have already referred to the fact that the earth and the moon are a similar distance from the sun. Not exactly, but in relation to space distances almost equal. The moon has no atmosphere therefore no air temperature so the surface temperature is measured. An earlier post gives details of how temperatures can be measured from a distance. Since my previous post about the moon I have checked for Centigrade as well as Fahrenheit temperatures, so now have them in C as well as F. Parts of the moon are exposed or hidden from the sun on a longer cycle than the earth’s near 24 hours rotation.
When exposed to the sun the moon’s surface temperature reaches over 250ºF/over 120ºC; there is a “morning” “noon” and “evening” phase followed by “night” and the average temperature of the “day” is over 220ºF/~105ºC. When hidden from the sun the temperature is below -220ºF/ below -150ºC. Without an atmosphere the surface temperature on earth would be somewhat similar, the average previously referred to of 33º colder being just that, an average.
For a scientific explanation of this, I refer you to the following link, and I have no hesitation in admitting that I do not understand the methodology of making the equation in order to provide an answer:
https://plus.maths.org/content/earth-and-moon-average-temperature-estimates
It is over 200 years since Fourier reached the conclusion that the earth’s atmosphere regulated the temperature of the planet because the earth should be much colder on average. His reasoning behind this was that heated objects (in this case by the sun) emit radiation and so the earth would emit the gained heat back into space. In the same manner as some other scientists, his work is best known due to a later publication about his earlier discovery. I do like the following quote from the American Institute of Physics:
Fourier tried to explain his insight by comparing the Earth with its covering of air to a box with a glass cover. That was a well-known experiment — the box's interior warms up when sunlight enters while the heat cannot escape. This was an over simple explanation, for it is quite different physics that keeps heat inside an actual glass box, or similarly in a greenhouse. (As Fourier knew, the main effect of the glass is to keep the air, heated by contact with sun-warmed surfaces, from wafting away. The glass does also keep heat radiation from escaping, but that's less important.) Nevertheless, people took up his analogy and trapping of heat by the atmosphere eventually came to be called "the greenhouse effect.
Fourier, writing in French, never used the word for greenhouse in anything he published. As can be seen from the quote it explains why the air, and its temperature does not act in the same way in a greenhouse as does the earth’s temperature where the atmosphere is open to space.
There are other greenhouse gases such as Nitrous Oxide and Methane, and these are sometimes converted to a C02 equivalent according to how much effect they have on temperatures in comparison to CO2. Refer to the works of the likes of Tyndall and Arrhenius for more information on the effects of different gases on earth’s temperature, especially even very small amounts of CO2. The information is all easily available for anyone who cares to look.
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
banjo
Member
- Location
- Back of beyond
Seems to be a hell of a lot of snow around the uk and Europe at the moment, and record snow around the world, coldest ever winter games, sea ice is growing, sea level has been dropping for 2 1/2 years, ice flows growing in size, only one active sun spot at the moment.
I even noticed last week they were trying to stop giving the temp on weather map apps, only in the city's, wonder why that is? Cos the city's are warmer than the countryside, it's laughable
Plenty of the global warming loons still ignoring the data bbbrrrr it's cold !
I even noticed last week they were trying to stop giving the temp on weather map apps, only in the city's, wonder why that is? Cos the city's are warmer than the countryside, it's laughable
Plenty of the global warming loons still ignoring the data bbbrrrr it's cold !
banjo
Member
- Location
- Back of beyond
The graph shows its thicker and you can walk from Greenland to Russia on it if you want too. Ignore it if you want, but it's fact!
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
Where? Places in the UK have up to two inches. Temps as low as minus six. I would expect that in late March/early April a few years ago.
How much do you have this morning? I know you will not answer that in case we all work out where you live and can keep reminding you how your local weather station records confound your ideas and predictions.
On that note, your mate Diamond has not been very successful with his recent predictions has he?
The lack of snow in this part of Europe means the ski slopes are not operating. Nearest one to me about 40 miles and very little snow. I can see the mountain as I drive back from town. Lots of bare ground. 16.7º here yesterday. Very warm for the time of year. Min 5.6 overnight.
So what if you can walk from Greenland to Russia. Given the time of year it would be a massive problem if you could not. Care to tell us when was the last time the area was not covered in ice in early February?
Campani
Member
The graph you uploaded shows a lower total sea ice volume in May in 2016 and 2017, compared to the 2004 -2014 average.
Attachments
Unfortunatly banjo has no idea what he is talking about as we have already establised in this thread, he also hasnt bothered to go tothe trouble of actually looking up the reference data.
He has just posted the above from another video feeding him the sh!t he wants to hear.
ollie989898
Member
Youtube in particular is absolutely crammed with videos created by cranks with peculiar agendas. Of course people with the same ideals or beliefs naturally gravitate to them.
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
Re #1412-1414, I am beginning to wonder if banjo gets a cut from these folks whose YouTube videos he plugs. There is an article on BBC internet news today about somebody who has been cut off from YouTube because of his "extreme pranks" videos. He is complaining because that is his full-time job. He actually makes a lucrative living from it.
The Oppenheimer Ranch Project also coins in a lot of money from gullible people. People like us who click on the video because banjo has posted it. I wonder how much these charlatans have made from just the four of us over the last year. Add in the other posters who view banjo's links in good faith and I reckon it would buy us all a round of drinks or three.
The Oppenheimer Ranch Project also coins in a lot of money from gullible people. People like us who click on the video because banjo has posted it. I wonder how much these charlatans have made from just the four of us over the last year. Add in the other posters who view banjo's links in good faith and I reckon it would buy us all a round of drinks or three.
Campani
Member
https://amp.theguardian.com/environ...er?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
A commercial tanker crosses the arctic sea for the first time along the north Russian coast in winter. Someone's investing an awful lot of money into this. They must be pretty sure sea ice is getting thinner over time.
A commercial tanker crosses the arctic sea for the first time along the north Russian coast in winter. Someone's investing an awful lot of money into this. They must be pretty sure sea ice is getting thinner over time.
Wellytrack
Member
Weather, it's changeable some areas are hotter and dryer than normal some are colder and wetter than normal, one of the predicted changes for the uk was colder winters as the Gulf Stream is effected, or weather patterns we are used to having. As the uk's natural latitude would normally supply very much colder winters, than we have seen, change is not always good. And If I were you I wouldn't be celebrating just yet, one year is a event, to form a trend you can celebrate you need a few more under your belt. And I for one would be very happy if it was true, would it change my opinions on fossil fuels or other measures put in place because of climate change no not a bit, the benefits they bring sell themselves. So what would change for me nothing really. I just wouldn't worry for my kids future quite so much.Seems to be a hell of a lot of snow around the uk and Europe at the moment, and record snow around the world, coldest ever winter games, sea ice is growing, sea level has been dropping for 2 1/2 years, ice flows growing in size, only one active sun spot at the moment.
I even noticed last week they were trying to stop giving the temp on weather map apps, only in the city's, wonder why that is? Cos the city's are warmer than the countryside, it's laughable
Plenty of the global warming loons still ignoring the data bbbrrrr it's cold !
I hope your right but I for one will hold off celebrating just yet, if the droughts spread and we see large scale displacement of populations, temperatures of our winters and summers will be small fry in our list of problems. Just look a little further past the end of your nose and see the big picture. Study our side of the argument without your fixed possition and look at the world with a little bit longer outlook. At think other than weather and temperatures an ice, long term fossil fuels are a dead end. Which make the arguments over climate change pointless. Because when you except that you can see the only long term route in go is renewable energy and if you belive in climate change or not you belive in the same goals we do cut our use of fossil fuels. Because we have to.....! Because renewable energy is the only sustainable long term route with a future.
And the sooner we do it the longer fossil fuels will last and it will also keep them cheaper for longer. It's win win.
- Location
- East Essexshire
The subject of volcanoes has cropped up a few times in this thread. I listened to The Infinite Monkey Cage on the way home this evening on radio 4, and the subject discussed was volcanoes, with two experts in the studio. It was very interesting. I'm not sure how to do links to BBC iPlayer.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
