The Ineos Grenadier thread

[Exfarmer]

not sure JLR is making a lot these days either, rumours are they are financially in VERY poor shape right now

I think some of the smaller, specialist car, manufacturers are doing better than the big guys these days, the world is changing fast, not just in farming!

I am afraid you are absolutely right in that assessment

 

[mf7480]

The duck may have been right- although his predictions have been somewhat accelerated

Confirmed: Ineos in talks with Daimler to build Grenadier at Smart factory | Autocar

Ineos could shun Wales and Portugal and use plant in Hambach, France, to become the manufacturing base for the new Grenadier

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[Still Farming]

Ineos puts Welsh plant on hold jeopardising hundreds of jobs

It had been hoped the company would bring much-needed jobs to Bridgend after the closure of Ford

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[Cowabunga]

The duck may have been right- although his predictions have been somewhat accelerated

Confirmed: Ineos in talks with Daimler to build Grenadier at Smart factory | Autocar

Ineos could shun Wales and Portugal and use plant in Hambach, France, to become the manufacturing base for the new Grenadier

www.autocar.co.uk

Am I the only one not surprised by this? I didn't think for one minute that the South Wales shed would ever assemble the Grenadier. It was a ridiculous idea to import all the components and then re-export them after stitching together in a shed thousands of miles away from the engineering plants. Made even more absurd by the likelihood of a no-deal Brexit. A laughable idea and one that Ineos would never actually carry out, especially as it has a history of flitting away from the UK at the drop of a hat to places with more favourable tax regimes.

Yes, I'm afraid my predictions seem to be coming true. On schedule in fact. Maybe a few months early, because I was expecting the shed to be built for them.

 

[H200GT]

Am I the only one not surprised by this? I didn't think for one minute that the South Wales shed would ever assemble the Grenadier. It was a ridiculous idea to import all the components and then re-export them after stitching together in a shed thousands of miles away from the engineering plants. Made even more absurd by the likelihood of a no-deal Brexit. A laughable idea and one that Ineos would never actually carry out, especially as it has a history of flitting away from the UK at the drop of a hat to places with more favourable tax regimes.

Yes, I'm afraid my predictions seem to be coming true. On schedule in fact. Maybe a few months early, because I was expecting the shed to be built for them.

One would have thought that at least if it was assembled in the uk, it would have carried the “made in Britain” badge, and carried some of the nostalgia of its predecessor.

I stick by my prediction of it being a massive flop. The commercial vehicle market has far to much oversupply, hence why Fiat, Mercedes and VW are getting out of it at present, (the new Amorak will be a rebadged ford). There are other brands available as well that not even offered in the UK at present, the Renault Alaskan and Mazda BT being 2 examples, although it could be said as they are only rebadged current Nissans and Isuzu models their offerings not required in the market. Its hard to see the new Amarok being offered for long, if its ever launched that is.

 

[Still Farming]

Big PR on every platform and National Press etc over the last week and then this ?
Thought they would have got their "act" together and bit better????

 

[Clive]

Big PR on every platform and National Press etc over the last week and then this ?
Thought they would have got their "act" together and bit better????

They don't have a product to sell yet


Did you not notice the sponsorship of the black arrows in Austria this weekend ? who owns Smart ?

When it comes to it I don't think Ineos are any stranger to PR if they are playing in F1 paddocks !

 

[Still Farming]

Wales Ineos 4x4 vehicle plant 'suspended' in Bridgend

Plans to build a new factory next to the Ford plant in Bridgend are put on hold by firm Ineos.

bbc.in

 

[ollie989898]

I think it will be a huge flop, especially if its heavily based on the old defender, it was outdated 30 years ago, never mind now. Sentiment wont sell them.

There are plenty of basic jap pickups on offer, but very few buy them. Despite the talk of everyone’s wanting a simple rugged vehicle, the vast majority buy the range toppers. You seldom see the basic models, or the single cabs, or king cabs on the road today.

its the same with tractors. Everyone wants the simple no electrics tractor, and there a choices out there, but again they never sell in big numbers.

Yes they will sell few, but if its closely related to the old defender id be surprised if the production run is more than a few years. The defender needed reinventing, not reincarnating. In someways it needed the same treatment that BMW gave the mini, todays examples have very little in common with its predecessors, but they did successfully modernise and reintroduce an icon.

Any brand new from the boots up vehicle being designed (as many here want) to be sold in piffling numbers to utility companies and farmers who will only abuse them is doomed to fail. Waste of time. The development costs of new vehicles are insane. Every time a British marque has reinvented a model it has been up-rated and ended up costing far more than the original cars did. Look at Lotus, Noble and the like. All rich mans toys because that is where the fat in the market is. Built and sold in modest numbers but with healthy margins. Who the heck starts a new car company looking to play in the Ford Focus market equivalent of farm pick ups?

 

[SamN]

I've been following the progress of the grenadier for a while and was excited to see what it would look like. As iconic as the defender design was, I can't understand why they've made it look so similar, part of the problem with the defender was it's pokey cabin and this looks to be the same. Would be better if it looked more like an early type disco. As for the design of the new defender, I quite like it, still maintains some of the defender while looking modern. Shame is going to be so complicated

 

[ollie989898]

I've been following the progress of the grenadier for a while and was excited to see what it would look like. As iconic as the defender design was, I can't understand why they've made it look so similar, part of the problem with the defender was it's pokey cabin and this looks to be the same. Would be better if it looked more like an early type disco. As for the design of the new defender, I quite like it, still maintains some of the defender while looking modern. Shame is going to be so complicated

I think much of the design thinking of this car may be down to the fact the bloke that owns the company and is financing it, wants it that way.

 

[Martin Holden]

Hmm I wonder what is really going on? The great Mr Dyson “pulled the plug” on the Dyson electrical car after a huge amount of “sunk costs” is Ineos about to go the same way or could Merc take it on?? Strange times to be an automotive manufacturer.

 

[ollie989898]

Hmm I wonder what is really going on? The great Mr Dyson “pulled the plug” on the Dyson electrical car after a huge amount of “sunk costs” is Ineos about to go the same way or could Merc take it on?? Strange times to be an automotive manufacturer.

Getting into the car business today is fraught with problems. On the plus side virtually any manufacturer must be gagging to lease you factory space or selling you their skills or workers or capacity.

The problem is, the industry is in the bridging point between internal combustion engines and fully electric. The moment electric cars become mainstream, every bit of tooling and technology sunk into engines will be rendered worthless in a nanosecond.

 

[Still Farming]

Getting into the car business today is fraught with problems. On the plus side virtually any manufacturer must be gagging to lease you factory space or selling you their skills or workers or capacity.

The problem is, the industry is in the bridging point between internal combustion engines and fully electric. The moment electric cars become mainstream, every bit of tooling and technology sunk into engines will be rendered worthless in a nanosecond.

Think all of this was known before thinking of building it?

 

[br jones]

Getting into the car business today is fraught with problems. On the plus side virtually any manufacturer must be gagging to lease you factory space or selling you their skills or workers or capacity.

The problem is, the industry is in the bridging point between internal combustion engines and fully electric. The moment electric cars become mainstream, every bit of tooling and technology sunk into engines will be rendered worthless in a nanosecond.

Will electric become mainstream ? Or will hydrogen take the mantle ,

 

[Martin Holden]

Getting into the car business today is fraught with problems. On the plus side virtually any manufacturer must be gagging to lease you factory space or selling you their skills or workers or capacity.

The problem is, the industry is in the bridging point between internal combustion engines and fully electric. The moment electric cars become mainstream, every bit of tooling and technology sunk into engines will be rendered worthless in a nanosecond.

I believe their is a good assembly plant for sale in Swindon sometime soon!! I just wonder if the Koreans might just start to assemble vehicles in Europe going forward??

 

[ollie989898]

I believe their is a good assembly plant for sale in Swindon sometime soon!! I just wonder if the Koreans might just start to assemble vehicles in Europe going forward??

Hard to say, all these kinds of decisions are often political as much as anything. May involve trade deals and what-nots.

 

[Martin Holden]

Hard to say, all these kinds of decisions are often political as much as anything. May involve trade deals and what-nots.

Yup, don’t think we will see Chinese manufacturers rushing over to occupy them now though given current rumblings around relations with the big Red country.

 

[H200GT]

Will electric become mainstream ? Or will hydrogen take the mantle ,

Hydrogen for me, far too much infrastructure required for electric cars for everyone, and the technology to store the energy and for rapid charging just doesn’t exist. Don’t get me wrong, electric will have its place, but the hydrogen revolution is just about to get serious IMO. There are tentative plans to make the North West a hydrogen hub. Winsford salt mines are being considered as storage, with the CO2 being captured and stored in the irish sea. Wouldn’t be surprised if Wylfa 2 was revamped to be part of the production process.

 

[Jsmith2211]

I think it will be a huge flop, especially if its heavily based on the old defender, it was outdated 30 years ago, never mind now. Sentiment wont sell them.

There are plenty of basic jap pickups on offer, but very few buy them. Despite the talk of everyone’s wanting a simple rugged vehicle, the vast majority buy the range toppers. You seldom see the basic models, or the single cabs, or king cabs on the road today.

its the same with tractors. Everyone wants the simple no electrics tractor, and there a choices out there, but again they never sell in big numbers.

Yes they will sell few, but if its closely related to the old defender id be surprised if the production run is more than a few years. The defender needed reinventing, not reincarnating. In someways it needed the same treatment that BMW gave the mini, todays examples have very little in common with its predecessors, but they did successfully modernise and reintroduce an icon.

No. Single cab is good for people with no freinds, and the double cab is good for everyone else. We have a single cab low end defender, and father wishes he bought the double cab