The madness of “one size fits all “

[marco]

Do they not do a culture in the uk?

 

[Water Wheel]

We don’t have TB

There is a chance that is true , but unfortunately also a good chance it is not.
If we are going to get anywhere tackling TB we have to accept the skin test result .
If you have any IR or even marginal readings, my advise would be, send them for slaughter now before the next test
I am so sorry to hear your situation, and can understand your frustration.
I second the advice to get some cameras up.

 

[jondear]

Do they not do a culture in the uk?

Not anymore.

 

[mixed farm]

Early in October we undertook our annual bTB test and were relaxed going into reading day as we are a housed herd with no wildlife carriers (as far as we know) within 5 mile radius, nothing bought in within last 18 months and then from Denmark and are in a supposed clean area with no pre movement testing
So the surprise was great when we had two “reactors”
These have been duly culled as per rules and lo, no lesions or sign of bTB.
However Welsh Government have a policy of blood testing all animals over six months if two or more reactors show on the skin test. This will be a gamma interferon test that captures all micro viruses including Johnes so we have been told to expect “false positives” which will also be culled regardless. Potentially we could lose a large number of cows and heifers despite our Johnes management plan.
Further we cannot restock until we have a clear skin test so a minimum of 60 days of lost income from any milkers taken.

Sheer madness causing unbelievable stress

Why did I think you were from Jersey Rick?

 

[jerseycowsman]

Not anymore.

They are culturing all 23 that we lost recently

 

[Cows 'n grass]

Someone within 5 miles from us lost 81 the other day in one test . previously they had 1ir . Scary !

And another herd not a million miles from you went 'clear' for the first time in many years a fortnight ago the whole herd was dispersed at Exeter market on Monday.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

We don't have a chronic johnes problem or anything but I suspect it's a higher than average problem and we only lost 23 out of the 800+ we tested and that was using the Flexi test which is supposed to throw more false positives.

 

[Water Wheel]

I have been told ( so it may not be correct ) that a large fully housed herd with a very high level of bio security,had a large breakdown and lost a lot of cows, the probable source of infection is thought to have been silage ,maize I think, brought in from some distance away.

Have you had to buy forage in , due to the summer?

 

[sidjon]

And another herd not a million miles from you went 'clear' for the first time in many years a fortnight ago the whole herd was dispersed at Exeter market on Monday.

And they have gone too Ireland

I have been told ( so it may not be correct ) that a large fully housed herd with a very high level of bio security,had a large breakdown and lost a lot of cows, the probable source of infection is thought to have been silage ,maize I think, brought in from some distance away.

Have you had to buy forage in , due to the summer?

One localish to me lost most of a 200 cow herd and maize was the most likely route of infection, fully housed robots too.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Do they not do a culture in the uk?

yes for new breakdowns, but they have to find something to culture! If they find lesions they take a sample but can't always get it to culture, once TB confirmed by culture then they can spoligotype it too which helps provide clues as to origin. I may be wrong but I think in a long term breakdown they don't bother. If no lesions then I don't think they try and sample anything.

 

[Lewis]

There is a chance that is true , but unfortunately also a good chance it is not.
If we are going to get anywhere tackling TB we have to accept the skin test result .
If you have any IR or even marginal readings, my advise would be, send them for slaughter now before the next test
I am so sorry to hear your situation, and can understand your frustration.
I second the advice to get some cameras up.

i was under the impression that inconclusive cows had to stay on farm to be retested at 60 days and not able to go straight to slaughter.

 

[Princess Pooper]

i was under the impression that inconclusive cows had to stay on farm to be retested at 60 days and not able to go straight to slaughter.

I think you are correct. I know someone who had a single inconclusive fat beast and it was ready to go (they should have sent it before they tested). They have never had a TB issue before and phoned APHA to ask if it could go for slaughter for commercial sale. They were told yes and given a licence. Sent it and there were no probs ... until they had another phone call from APHA saying a mistake had been made and it shouldn't have been allowed to go! They were going to have to whole herd test again as they were picked up on a radial so it didn't actually matter, but APHA had made a boo boo.

 

[Martyn]

And another herd not a million miles from you went 'clear' for the first time in many years a fortnight ago the whole herd was dispersed at Exeter market on Monday.

Organic? Made good money too

 

[milkloss]

i was under the impression that inconclusive cows had to stay on farm to be retested at 60 days and not able to go straight to slaughter.

Depends upon the area you are in I think. It’s is not advisable to get rid of an IR in this area as it means you cause a whole herd test. If the IR goes clear in 60 then it all goes away.

 

[Einstien]

the IR rule depenends if you have had another reactor (or maybe IR) within the last 2 years. If you have, you are NOT ALLOWED to remove the animal (Madness) or if you do the entire herd has to be re-tested at 60 days.

If you do decide to cull the animal at your own cost (zero compensation) the APAH stance is (And this is exactly what they told me) The ONLY test they trust is the skin pr*ck test, the vet at APAH told me looking for lesions and culturing samples is not accurate at all.

I asked if the single IR could be blood tested to confirm one way or the other, and NOPE the Vet said that isn't accurate either!!!!!!

I really don't understand how this logic is compliant with trying to eradicate the disease!

 

[Water Wheel]

i was under the impression that inconclusive cows had to stay on farm to be retested at 60 days and not able to go straight to slaughter.

We had 1 reactor, 2IR , and in our area that meant two 60 day retest anyway, so sending IR for slaughter made no difference.
We got a license off APHA ,they went to an approved slaughter house for inspection at slaughter, nothing found, we got no compensation , but were paid a reasonable value by the slaughter house.

Had we kept them and one had gone down as a reactor at the next herd test( About a 25% chance of them failing eventually,is the figure I have in my mind) we would have then needed two more tests.
I try to get rid of all possible risks as fast as I can. If you have a reactor and IRs, talk to your APHA vet and argue your case.

 

[organicguy]

I think you are correct. I know someone who had a single inconclusive fat beast and it was ready to go (they should have sent it before they tested). They have never had a TB issue before and phoned APHA to ask if it could go for slaughter. They were told yes and given a licence. Sent it and there were no probs ... until they had another phone call from APHA saying a mistake had been made and it shouldn't have been allowed to go! They were going to have to test again as they were picked up on a radial so it didn't actually matter, but APHA had made a boo boo.

Depends upon the area you are in I think. It’s is not advisable to get rid of an IR in this area as it means you cause a whole herd test. If the IR goes clear in 60 then it all goes away.

We had 2 IR at spring test. Had to retest them or if we slaughtered them we triggered a whole herd retest. Both failed re test so back to 60 days, at least we had one test with only 2 cows to do!

 

[Kingofgrass]

We sent 1barron off two weeks ago three days later shut down,full test last week clear vet reckons it was probably just scaring in the lungs and the it’ll be some young vet that hasn’t a clue.the Barron being cultured so should just get it back b4 next test

 

[Einstien]

You can get a license if you are caught by the 2 year rule - but no compensation - and no benefit of the inspection at slaughter (the APHA don't trust the negative slaughter checks, so where you only have one or two IR's you are penalized for taking appropriate action yet there are incentives to keep the animal on farm (albeit isolated, still a risk). so how is this compliant with taking action to remove the disease????

Plus if they don't trust a negative test at slaughter, what does that say for all the carcasses checked at slaughter???????

And if you cant blood test an IR straight away because they don't trust that test either, what does that say about blood testing?

 

[Ducati899]

You can get a license if you are caught by the 2 year rule - but no compensation - and no benefit of the inspection at slaughter (the APHA don't trust the negative slaughter checks, so where you only have one or two IR's you are penalized for taking appropriate action yet there are incentives to keep the animal on farm (albeit isolated, still a risk). so how is this compliant with taking action to remove the disease????

Plus if they don't trust a negative test at slaughter, what does that say for all the carcasses checked at slaughter???????

And if you cant blood test an IR straight away because they don't trust that test either, what does that say about blood testing?

I had some 7 month Holstein heifers and Hereford steers go positive on bloody test,I was told these would be false positives!!