The man in the cheap suit

[Walterp]

Jeremy Corbyn is what happens when politicians become corrupt and remote: traditional allegiances weaken, disorientated (and often angry) voters turn to single-issue campaigns, and charismatic populists like Corbyn (and Trump, Macron, Farage and Grillo) by-pass established party identities and draw directly on the volatile support of the crowd.

One of Mr Corbyn's best lines, at rallies, is "It's not me the Establishment is afraid of, it's you" - our liberalised economy has progressively liberated the older generation, whilst exploiting the younger. A working definition of political unsustainablility, if ever I saw one.

What, for instance, might have been the GE 2017 result if the Grenfell Tower tragedy happened a few days before the poll?

Mrs Thatcher nailed it: “The most important element of political success is a sense of purpose” (‘The Path to Power‘).

As our politicians have become professionals, largely detached from the rest of us, citizens are decreasingly willing to join professionalised political parties financed by large donors or public funds, or to identify strongly with them. This is seen everywhere, but is most marked in the UK, where political participation was very high: in 1950 the Conservatives had 3 million members, they now have 150,000 (with an average age of nearly 60, and a chronic inability to attract young members who aren't, well, 'members').

Instead, people identify with the man in the cheap suit, but with a sense of purpose.

 

[turbo]

Jeremy Corbyn is what happens when politicians become corrupt and remote: traditional allegiances weaken, disorientated (and often angry) voters turn to single-issue campaigns, and charismatic populists like Corbyn (and Trump, Macron, Farage and Grillo) by-pass established party identities and draw directly on the volatile support of the crowd.

One of Mr Corbyn's best lines, at rallies, is "It's not me the Establishment is afraid of, it's you" - our liberalised economy has progressively liberated the older generation, whilst exploiting the younger. A working definition of political unsustainablility, if ever I saw one.

What, for instance, might have been the GE 2017 result if the Grenfell Tower tragedy happened a few days before the poll?

Mrs Thatcher nailed it: “The most important element of political success is a sense of purpose” (‘The Path to Power‘).

As our politicians have become professionals, largely detached from the rest of us, citizens are decreasingly willing to join professionalised political parties financed by large donors or public funds, or to identify strongly with them. This is seen everywhere, but is most marked in the UK, where political participation was very high: in 1950 the Conservatives had 3 million members, they now have 150,000 (with an average age of nearly 60, and a chronic inability to attract young members who aren't, well, 'members').

Instead, people identify with the man in the cheap suit, but with a sense of purpose.

He didn't win no matter how you try to spin it or ever likely to

 

[DrWazzock]

Disaffection with main stream politics has resulted in a surge of support for both left wing and right wing populists.

Maybe it's time for normal people to rejoin the mainstream parties and regain some political stability for the country.

We are on the edge of a serious mess.

 

[Hindsight]

He didn't win no matter how you try to spin it or ever likely to

I suggest you are to literal.

True he did not win the General Election. But is his performance in the GE having a more subtle effect that prior to the GE no Tory would have considered possible. The Labour party has more seats than the Tories ever anticipated and thus by default more influence. Also Corbyn has become unsackable in the Labour Party and this will reinforce his power base and affect the Labour Party going forward. Two resulting observations of that.

1 Public sector pay cap - tricky for the Tories as Financial competence is a key factor for them and the pay cap is quite important to hold back public spending. And especially important to the under 40 civil servants - many of their terms are worse than the over 60 retiring civil servants. Watch the cleverer unions emphasise this in the coming years.

2 Student debt and repayment - First cohort that has paid £9k is now out and about - and more to come through with that level of debt and then the Tories impose 6.3% interest rates autumn 2017 - which will possibly be even higher in 12 months - Tories will have to find some way to deal with this before the next GE, and this time cannot just blame Nick Clegg and Lib Dems - the previous strategy.

Afraid I similar to WaltP tend to consider there is a generational effect as well. I postulate at the moment politically the under 40s are less scared of Labour. That cohort is to an extent increasing. The older cohort inevitably is reducing.

So I tend to concurr that yes literally you are correct Jeremy Corbyn is a busted flush and unlikely to become Prime Minister. Labour lost the 2017 GE. That is unless the Tory Party goes into self implosion in the near future - which we should never underestimate its ability to self destruct (the upcoming conference might be fun to watch) and another GE is called early. But my observation is the performance of Labour and more importantly the Corbyn effect in 2017 is having an ever so subtle effect in some areas of future policy.

Anyway will be fun to watch for all. Cheers.

 

[wanton dwarf]

Disaffection with main stream politics has resulted in a surge of support for both left wing and right wing populists.

Maybe it's time for normal people to rejoin the mainstream parties and regain some political stability for the country.

We are on the edge of a serious mess.

Disaffection with main stream politics has led to a surge of support for ... more main stream politics ... from the same main stream political parties.

Hilarious.

Corbyn gave out sweeties ... which the darling little kiddies picked up ... only to find out they didn't exist AGAIN.


Corbyn is an opportunist ... sat on his ass for decades on the back benches raking in the cash whilst his party killed brown skinned people based on more lies.

The same "populist" which thinks stopping young white girls being raped by Pakistani gangs is "racist" ...

Worse Commie Corbyn would very much like a UK communist state. About time people stood up to be counted and stopped this lunatic and his PC screwed up looney party in its tracks.

NOT WANTED.

 

[Exfarmer]

He didn't win no matter how you try to spin it or ever likely to

He certainly did not win, but to think he will not win is I think , optimistic.
The young , have not known the result of the idiot left having real power, that was two generations ago. They and some on the right also suck in this nonsense generated on social media, by malevolent overseas groups.
They see the older generation having it all , big pensions , very fat salaries, while they have huge debts, from an often poor University Education and little chance of owning a house thanks to buy to let driving up the cost of housing.
You have to remember every five years there are several million new voteers who are young and impressionable, at the moment that group starts to change politics as they get in to their 30's and start a family, but this is changing.
If the Conservatives cannot find a leader with more inspiration than TM or Brexit is anything but a roaring success, I would put money on JC and John Macdonald being the next occupants of Downing Street.
I do very much pray that I am wrong, as it will be a huge disaster for the country.

 

[caveman]

The man in the cheap suit might think he's doing ok on the catwalk.....but it's the man in the cheap seats, who can take in the whole scene, who he will be accountable to.

 

[turbo]

He certainly did not win, but to think he will not win is I think , optimistic.
The young , have not known the result of the idiot left having real power, that was two generations ago. They and some on the right also suck in this nonsense generated on social media, by malevolent overseas groups.
They see the older generation having it all , big pensions , very fat salaries, while they have huge debts, from an often poor University Education and little chance of owning a house thanks to buy to let driving up the cost of housing.
You have to remember every five years there are several million new voteers who are young and impressionable, at the moment that group starts to change politics as they get in to their 30's and start a family, but this is changing.
If the Conservatives cannot find a leader with more inspiration than TM or Brexit is anything but a roaring success, I would put money on JC and John Macdonald being the next occupants of Downing Street.
I do very much pray that I am wrong, as it will be a huge disaster for the country.

Next time the torys will be ready for him,they treated him as a joke and to be fair he's better off as the leader of labour than if say David millband was their leader

 

[DrWazzock]

Disaffection with main stream politics has led to a surge of support for ... more main stream politics ... from the same main stream political parties.

Hilarious.

Corbyn gave out sweeties ... which the darling little kiddies picked up ... only to find out they didn't exist AGAIN.


Corbyn is an opportunist ... sat on his ass for decades on the back benches raking in the cash whilst his party killed brown skinned people based on more lies.

The same "populist" which thinks stopping young white girls being raped by Pakistani gangs is "racist" ...

Worse Commie Corbyn would very much like a UK communist state. About time people stood up to be counted and stopped this lunatic and his PC screwed up looney party in its tracks.

NOT WANTED.

Corbyn isn't mainstream. He's hard left. That's what I was trying to say anyway. I wouldn't welcome him as leader, just as I wouldn't welcome Farage. Single issues aren't a basis for running a country.

The Tory party needs to pull together urgently and get back to moderate common sense policies.

TBH I'm not sure where we are going or whether we are doing the right thing.

 

[DrWazzock]

I have tried arguing with @Walterp not because I disagree with him on everything but because I am trying to test my views and thoughts against the thorough critical analysis that Walter excels at.

The niggling conclusion is that Walter is right on a good many issues. We have drifted dangerously to the right and at the same time to the left, with the country split down the middle.

Time to press the "sensible" button and get rid of the false prophets. Maybe something can still be salvaged, but it's undoubtedly an omnishambles.

 

[turbo]

I have tried arguing with @Walterp not because I disagree with him on everything but because I am trying to test my views and thoughts against the thorough critical analysis that Walter excels at.

The niggling conclusion is that Walter is right on a good many issues. We have drifted dangerously to the right and at the same time to the left, with the country split down the middle.

Time to press the "sensible" button and get rid of the false prophets. Maybe something can still be salvaged, but it's undoubtedly an omnishambles.

We haven't drifted to the right,we are in the middle like we have been for years and look at the mess that we are in.infact I would say we are still left of center in our governing classes and that is the problem

 

[wanton dwarf]

Corbyn isn't mainstream. He's hard left. That's what I was trying to say anyway. I wouldn't welcome him as leader, just as I wouldn't welcome Farage. Single issues aren't a basis for running a country.

The Tory party needs to pull together urgently and get back to moderate common sense policies.

TBH I'm not sure where we are going or whether we are doing the right thing.

What common sense policies ?

 

[wanton dwarf]

We haven't drifted to the right,we are in the middle like we have been for years and look at the mess that we are in.infact I would say we are still left of center in our governing classes and that is the problem

We're in the middle of a Globalist Liberal FK up.

 

[turbo]

We're in the middle of a Globalist Liberal FK up.

Totally agree we are in a mess but it won't get better until we start looking after ourselves first

 

[DrWazzock]

We haven't drifted to the right,we are in the middle like we have been for years and look at the mess that we are in.infact I would say we are still left of center in our governing classes and that is the problem

Most of our politicians are in the muddled middle, beleaguered by the voters who are now hard left and hard right in similar numbers. The labour front bench has been hijacked by the populist hard left. Goodness news where the Tory party will end up.

The middle ground politicians have taken their eyes off the ball and we've drifted into this mess. They took their voters for granted, didn't put in the work needed to explain their policies. Voters lost patience and polarised.

 

[le bon paysan]

Jeremy Corbyn is what happens when politicians become corrupt and remote: traditional allegiances weaken, disorientated (and often angry) voters turn to single-issue campaigns, and charismatic populists like Corbyn (and Trump, Macron, Farage and Grillo) by-pass established party identities and draw directly on the volatile support of the crowd.

One of Mr Corbyn's best lines, at rallies, is "It's not me the Establishment is afraid of, it's you" - our liberalised economy has progressively liberated the older generation, whilst exploiting the younger. A working definition of political unsustainablility, if ever I saw one.

What, for instance, might have been the GE 2017 result if the Grenfell Tower tragedy happened a few days before the poll?

Mrs Thatcher nailed it: “The most important element of political success is a sense of purpose” (‘The Path to Power‘).

As our politicians have become professionals, largely detached from the rest of us, citizens are decreasingly willing to join professionalised political parties financed by large donors or public funds, or to identify strongly with them. This is seen everywhere, but is most marked in the UK, where political participation was very high: in 1950 the Conservatives had 3 million members, they now have 150,000 (with an average age of nearly 60, and a chronic inability to attract young members who aren't, well, 'members').

Instead, people identify with the man in the cheap suit, but with a sense of purpose.

I would take issue with you including Macron in your list, he is not a single issue man and has good experience in government and business.
Before entering politics, he was a senior civil servant and investment banker. Macron studied philosophy at Paris Nanterre University, completed a Master's of Public Affairs at Sciences Po, and graduated from the École nationale d'administration (ENA) in 2004. He worked as an Inspector of Finances in the Inspectorate General of Finances (IGF), then became an investment banker at Rothschild & Cie Banque.[1]

Macron was appointed Deputy Secretary-General in François Hollande's first government in May 2012, having been a member of the Socialist Party from 2006 to 2009. He was appointed Minister of Economy, Industry and Digital Affairs in 2014 under the Second Valls Government, where he pushed through business-friendly reforms. He resigned in August 2016 to launch a bid in the 2017 presidential election. In November 2016, Macron declared that he would run in the election under the banner of En Marche!, a centrist political movement he founded in April 2016, and won the election on 7 May 2017.[2][3][4][5][6][7]

Macron, at the age of 39, became the youngest President in the history of France.[8][9][10][11] Upon his inauguration, Macron appointed Le Havre mayor Édouard Philippe to be Prime Minister. In the June 2017 legislative elections, Macron's party, renamed "La République En Marche!", together with its ally the Democratic Movement (MoDem), secured a comfortable majority, winning 350 seats out of 577, with his party alone winning an outright majority of 308 seats.

 

[Muck Spreader]

I would take issue with you including Macron in your list, he is not a single issue man and has good experience in government and business.
Before entering politics, he was a senior civil servant and investment banker. Macron studied philosophy at Paris Nanterre University, completed a Master's of Public Affairs at Sciences Po, and graduated from the École nationale d'administration (ENA) in 2004. He worked as an Inspector of Finances in the Inspectorate General of Finances (IGF), then became an investment banker at Rothschild & Cie Banque.[1]

Macron was appointed Deputy Secretary-General in François Hollande's first government in May 2012, having been a member of the Socialist Party from 2006 to 2009. He was appointed Minister of Economy, Industry and Digital Affairs in 2014 under the Second Valls Government, where he pushed through business-friendly reforms. He resigned in August 2016 to launch a bid in the 2017 presidential election. In November 2016, Macron declared that he would run in the election under the banner of En Marche!, a centrist political movement he founded in April 2016, and won the election on 7 May 2017.[2][3][4][5][6][7]

Macron, at the age of 39, became the youngest President in the history of France.[8][9][10][11] Upon his inauguration, Macron appointed Le Havre mayor Édouard Philippe to be Prime Minister. In the June 2017 legislative elections, Macron's party, renamed "La République En Marche!", together with its ally the Democratic Movement (MoDem), secured a comfortable majority, winning 350 seats out of 577, with his party alone winning an outright majority of 308 seats.

Ruddy hell, you can tell it was raining today.

 

[wanton dwarf]

I would take issue with you including Macron in your list, he is not a single issue man and has good experience in government and business.
Before entering politics, he was a senior civil servant and investment banker. Macron studied philosophy at Paris Nanterre University, completed a Master's of Public Affairs at Sciences Po, and graduated from the École nationale d'administration (ENA) in 2004. He worked as an Inspector of Finances in the Inspectorate General of Finances (IGF), then became an investment banker at Rothschild & Cie Banque.[1]

Macron was appointed Deputy Secretary-General in François Hollande's first government in May 2012, having been a member of the Socialist Party from 2006 to 2009. He was appointed Minister of Economy, Industry and Digital Affairs in 2014 under the Second Valls Government, where he pushed through business-friendly reforms. He resigned in August 2016 to launch a bid in the 2017 presidential election. In November 2016, Macron declared that he would run in the election under the banner of En Marche!, a centrist political movement he founded in April 2016, and won the election on 7 May 2017.[2][3][4][5][6][7]

Macron, at the age of 39, became the youngest President in the history of France.[8][9][10][11] Upon his inauguration, Macron appointed Le Havre mayor Édouard Philippe to be Prime Minister. In the June 2017 legislative elections, Macron's party, renamed "La République En Marche!", together with its ally the Democratic Movement (MoDem), secured a comfortable majority, winning 350 seats out of 577, with his party alone winning an outright majority of 308 seats.

I'd be interested to know why you think a person who has worked in a senior postion in a globalist bank is considered trustworthy and fit for public service.

Banks have been involved in many wars, including world wars ... specifically given the circumstances of the 2008 crash most normal people would point out they have little if any moral fibre, social duty or sense of community.

Banks have been forced to account for their incompetance by law, not by the character and will of their directors.

 

[Hindsight]

When I made my post this morning I had not looked at The Times. I see the Tories are focussing on University tuition fees and interest rates as I expected. I shall watch with interest what happens and how they deal with the different cohorts. Public Sector Pay next. And then we shall move onto other Labour Party issues. Now did Corbyn win or lose?

 

[Ashtree]

When I made my post this morning I had not looked at The Times. I see the Tories are focussing on University tuition fees and interest rates as I expected. I shall watch with interest what happens and how they deal with the different cohorts. Public Sector Pay next. And then we shall move onto other Labour Party issues. Now did Corbyn win or lose?

Of course he won. The battle for votes in next election has now to be fought on his terms.
His latest term is on the SM and CU.
He has moved from a hard out position on both to a transition period in on both.
Tories have no other option but to follow suit. Of course Corbyn will keep upping the anti, and pushing
the SM and CU from temporary to medium term, to some other modesty covering loin cloth which commits
Britain to permanent membership through some new painful associate membership of EU.

Meanwhile of course the Tory party will tear itself apart once more with the headbanging few
turning into UKIP mark II.

Either way you guys will probably have a true Marxist PM next time round in Corbyn.
OR you have a Tory PM elected on a manifesto driven by Corbys's agenda, leading a broken Tory government more intent on infighting than ever before.

Absolute worst of all possible worlds.

Thanks to Farage, Boris and the red bus.