The Red Tractor ACCS referendum

[DrWazzock]

Now this is where I would suggest Clive should really focus, not by polling the lemmings but setting up an alternative option for those who have the desire for change and prepared to back their convictions. The struggle would be in producing a scheme that replaced RT rather than reflected RT with new board, new rules, new regs etc. I have little doubt Clive could canvas support for such a scheme from a few large operators to kick this off rather than throwing away the opportunity for change by trying to solve everyone’s problems, inc those who will dump him for a £1! I suspect the future could be made up of multiple sector, regional and group schemes and RT may be replaced by statutory legislations that already exists and doesn’t need an extra badge. That’s my thoughts and I have multiple concerns about making it a success but have never shied from
a challenge despite getting shot down.

It’s simpler than that. We set up a U.K. wide assurance scheme that assures we meet minimum legal requirements. No extras. Self certification and self inspection. Signed certificate of conformity. Unique ID number for each business. Job done. I could run the whole thing from a portacabin with a 4g hub. Well Clive could.

 

[spin cycle]

could do with about 50 more votes on the poll then it would've canvassed 1% of rt membership....that would be quite good imo

i'm unable to vote as no longer rt

 

[Clive]

It’s simpler than that. We set up a U.K. wide assurance scheme that assures we meet minimum legal requirements. No extras. Self certification and self inspection. Signed certificate of conformity. Unique ID number for each business. Job done. I could run the whole thing from a portacabin with a 4g hub. Well Clive could.

this could be the viable alternative - maybe add a bit of tech to help admin and the self cert process

 

[Farmer1001]

[/QUOTE]

It’s simpler than that. We set up a U.K. wide assurance scheme that assures we meet minimum legal requirements. No extras. Self certification and self inspection. Signed certificate of conformity. Unique ID number for each business. Job done. I could run the whole thing from a portacabin with a 4g hub. Well Clive could.

this could be the viable alternative - maybe add a bit of tech to help admin and the self cert process

Edit - sorry @DrWazzock I didn’t read it properly and focused too much on the mention of another “assurance scheme”! Yes agree in relation to a national “scheme” then yes I’d support this, each load goes with a consignment note with the unique number, website to show what it means. Ignore import standards, monitoring of and adjusting standards to reflect, keep it simple. Price is high, long time till harvest...

 

[DrWazzock]

this could be the viable alternative - maybe add a bit of tech to help admin and the self cert process

It is the viable alternative. I’ll hold your coat. Go for it.

 

[Grass And Grain]

this could be the viable alternative - maybe add a bit of tech to help admin and the self cert process

RT totally rely on the farmer to be truthful with all the record keeping, so self certification isn't too far removed from that. Although they do have about 2000 per year suspended due to non comformances.

 

[DrWazzock]

Have a couple of roving “ advisers “. To make sure standards are maintained.

 

[Chickcatcher]

RT totally rely on the farmer to be truthful with all the record keeping, so self certification isn't too far removed from that. Although they do have about 2000 per year suspended due to non comformances.

is there any point to be honest. a single C02 reading recorded at just over 3000 was enough to fail.

 

[glasshouse]

Ooooh, is @Clive aiming to be the farmer's Wat Tyler?

A word of warning - after a promising start the Peasants Revolt ran out of steam and our Wat was killed by the King's men and his head was paraded around London on a pole.

It didnt tun out of steam at all
Wat tyler was murdered while negotiating under a truce

 

[Doc]

Following this.
It’s really opened my eyes. I know little about arable.
Assurance is about food safety and part of that is traceability. The law protects this. The rest seemingly is just mission creep, which clearly gives no return to Farmer or consumer of anything meaningful as a monetizeable point of difference.
It seems a ginormous con from what I can read here.

 

[glasshouse]

Have a couple of roving “ advisers “. To make sure standards are maintained.

No

 

[tullah]

Yes mission creep says it all

 

[Brisel]

by the way ....... i wonder if his farm was removed from the scheme following this clear none compliance?

the hypocrisy is eminence ! they really seem to believe theor own shite doesn’t smell i reckon !


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Euston will have a soil management plan, so all will be fine. I doubt that Andrew Blenkiron wrote the plan the night before the inspection, if he wrote it at all.

In his defence, you don’t grow late autumn vegetables on blowing sand without cultivation and you don’t just magic up a cover crop afterwards. Perhaps you should reconsider what veg you buy when you look at what has to be done to the soil In order to grow them.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Euston will have a soil management plan, so all will be fine. I doubt that Andrew Blenkiron wrote the plan the night before the inspection, if he wrote it at all.

In his defence, you don’t grow late autumn vegetables on blowing sand without cultivation and you don’t just magic up a cover crop afterwards. Perhaps you should reconsider what veg you buy when you look at what has to be done to the soil In order to grow them.

Ha.
there would be ways and means especially for a big clever sounding outfits with the 'extra' resources available., no exscuse at all when theres plenty of money about

ie firebreaks of green or hedges put in instead of such fudging great bare prairies.
Poor show, not good enough ,would lie heavily on my conscientious that s for sure and one doesnt need a fancy FA scheme to learn that.

 

[Farmer1001]

@MrNoo its clear the majority of farmers have had enough of RT, I don't have an issue with TFF collating views, polls, opinions etc my problem is @Clive and @Chris F have presented a
poll that will be seen as a reflection of the TFF big picture whilst ignoring the fact its blocked many RT members from taking part, as such the figures don't reflect the truth of feeling or the size of the TFF audience. The poll was put together in a hurry, perhaps a poll based upon peoples views of RT only would have been better, more accurate and more powerful than a poll asking for peoples views on a new scheme that would actually be illegal therefore will never happen.

Before I quit I asked myself a few key questions from which I made the decision to quit 1) Has RT gone too far from its original brief - yes 2) Does RT deliver value for money to our business -no 3) Does RT connect enough with the public - no 4) Would I have joined RT at the start if it was the RT of today - no.

Had a thread been set up as above, one that opens up the floor to ALL RT members of all sectors including livestock and cereal, current, past and future, then I'm sure the numbers would have been huge and the message very clear as to the depth of feeling primary producers have for RT.

Perhaps (edit) a TFF poll asking "have you left or seriously considering leaving RT before your membership renews" would channel the over riding feeling of RT members collectively share, the proposal of some sort of alternative simply takes the focus off the one thing we can mostly agree on - RT is not working.
I'll leave the subject alone now, I'm sorry if you think my views are simple petulance, I can assure you my decision to quit RT was not petulance - I've never looked back.

 

[Chris F]

@runny egg we have not blocked anyone. Anyone can be a TFF member and got on this.

But you are right it’s just a segment of opinion. Red Tractor can take note of all the farmers who voted on it or not. That is up to them.

You are right that Red Tractor could themselves set up a simple poll as well. But they, as has been stated, won’t ask a question that they won’t get the answer they want. I think in fact it was compared to the brexit vote where farmers voted out. They know best.

 

[Bury the Trash]

@MrNoo its clear the majority of farmers have had enough of RT, I don't have an issue with TFF collating views, polls, opinions etc my problem is @Clive and @Chris F have presented a
poll that will be seen as a reflection of the TFF big picture whilst ignoring the fact its blocked many RT members from taking part, as such the figures don't reflect the truth of feeling or the size of the TFF audience. The poll was put together in a hurry, perhaps a poll based upon peoples views of RT only would have been better, more accurate and more powerful than a poll asking for peoples views on a new scheme that would actually be illegal therefore will never happen.

Before I quit I asked myself a few key questions from which I made the decision to quit 1) Has RT gone too far from its original brief - yes 2) Does RT deliver value for money to our business -no 3) Does RT connect enough with the public - no 4) Would I have joined RT at the start if it was the RT of today - no.

Had a thread been set up as above, one that opens up the floor to ALL RT members of all sectors including livestock and cereal, current, past and future, then I'm sure the numbers would have been huge and the message very clear as to the depth of feeling primary producers have for RT.

Perhaps the poll asking "have you left or seriously considering leaving RT before your membership renews" would channel the over riding feeling of RT members collectively share, the proposal of some sort of alternative simply takes the focus off the one thing we can mostly agree on - RT is not working.
I'll leave the subject alone now, I'm sorry if you think my views are simple petulance, I can assure you my decision to quit RT was not petulance - I've never looked back.

be sorry for nothing thats a Good post.

 

[Farmer1001]

@runny egg we have not blocked anyone. Anyone can be a TFF member and got on this.

But you are right it’s just a segment of opinion. Red Tractor can take note of all the farmers who voted on it or not. That is up to them.

You are right that Red Tractor could themselves set up a simple poll as well. But they, as has been stated, won’t ask a question that they won’t get the answer they want. I think in fact it was compared to the brexit vote where farmers voted out. They know best.

For clarity Chris, my point was by doing a poll for cereal only is not as strong as a collective poll of RT members as a whole. I didn’t say RT should do a simple poll, I said I thought It would have been better for TFF to do a more simple poll (not RT) that reflects the broad view of all sector members on TFF of their opinion of RT alone. Sorry if the post wasn’t clear.

 

[homefarm]

Before I quit I asked myself a few key questions from which I made the decision to quit 1) Has RT gone too far from its original brief - yes 2) Does RT deliver value for money to our business -no 3) Does RT connect enough with the public - no 4) Would I have joined RT at the start if it was the RT of today - no.

I like these questions, could something similar be the basis of another poll.

Everyone could then vote .
I think everyone will vote 100% yes to question one, which is my main gripe.

 

[MrNoo]

For clarity Chris, my point was by doing a poll for cereal only is not as strong as a collective poll of RT members as a whole. I didn’t say RT should do a simple poll, I said I thought It would have been better for TFF to do a more simple poll (not RT) that reflects the broad view of all sector members on TFF of their opinion of RT alone. Sorry if the post wasn’t clear.

Yes, I understand your point but I think the original poster just mentioned to start with the combinable side of RT, agreed I am sure the poll results would be similar across all sectors and also a lot more votes would be cast if open to all sectors. But a bit like eating a whale, small mouthfuls at a time.