The use of reasonable force and keeping trespassers and thieves away from our farms

[ABlackSheep]

There's been a story in the news recently about a young Yorkshire pig farmer who heard intruders in his pig shed at 5am and decided to tackle them. His actions have resulted in him being arrested for assault.

Video: Pig farmer kicks an animal rights activist who staged protest at farm | Daily Mail Online

This shocking video shows the moment a pig farmer 'kung fu kicks' an animal rights activist who staged a protest at his farm before threatening to 'shoot you all'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sorry this a link to the Daly Mail but they have a video of the incident

I'd be interested to hear what members thoughts are on what they would do in similar circumstances?

What should we do when people intentionally trespass on our farms, to either interfere with our livelihoods and/or steal and damage things?

Should we stand back and do nothing?

Should we take action of some kind to eject them from our property?

There's a petition on the government website lobbying for trespass to become a criminal offence:

"Make trespass on British farms a criminal offence. Protect British farmers!"

https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/117412381/verify?token=dskzz0KXsqECCFF11-rF

Comments please.

 

[roscoe erf]

Thread already running

 

[ABlackSheep]

Thread already running

Great thanks for that I'll look at it.

 

[Turnip]

Farmer arrested after attack

Farmer arrested after attack

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9877067/Pig-farmer-runs-flying-kicks-animal-rights-activist-group-storms-farm.html

thefarmingforum.co.uk

 

[ABlackSheep]

Thread already running

I can only find a thread that discusses the petition. But it's rather short and doesn't prompt the wider topic of what farmers would do if they found intruders, can do, or should do to protect their property.

 

[ABlackSheep]

Farmer arrested after attack

Farmer arrested after attack

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9877067/Pig-farmer-runs-flying-kicks-animal-rights-activist-group-storms-farm.html

thefarmingforum.co.uk

Ah ha great thank you. I'll have a read.

 

[Dry Rot]

I continue to have great faith in big hairy well trained dogs. Their presence alone is a great deterrent. Would these trespassers have broken in at all if they'd been aware of dogs? This seems to be a grey area with the law and the final decision seems to depend on the court. Unless someone else knows differently.

 

[ABlackSheep]

I continue to have great faith in big hairy well trained dogs. Their presence alone is a great deterrent. Would these trespassers have broken in at all if they'd been aware of dogs? This seems to be a grey area with the law and the final decision seems to depend on the court. Unless someone else knows differently.

Many thanks for your thoughts Dry Rot. The purpose of this thread is taking the recent events with the pig farmer as a starting point (the subject of another thread) for forum members to share their thoughts and experiences on farm security which is exactly what you have done. Cheers.

 

[Dry Rot]

Many thanks for your thoughts Dry Rot. The purpose of this thread is taking the recent events with the pig farmer as a starting point (the subject of another thread) for forum members to share their thoughts and experiences on farm security which is exactly what you have done. Cheers.

I have put emphasis on "training" for good reason. A dog that can bite but is untrained or badly trained is a liability. My main dog (GSD) is trained in man work and will attack on command. He is also very defensive of home territory and shows it when strangers turn up. But out of the kennel and when I am around he is everyone's friend. I don't approve of keeping vicious dogs that can't be controlled any more than leaving a loaded gun lying around.

If a dog had been housed in the pig shed and it had attacked this mob, I really don't know how the courts would have viewed it. That's why I posted the question. I suspect it would depend on the circumstances? There's a similar problem with these "guardian dogs" that seem to be getting a lot of publicity. No doubt it will all become clear when someone gets killed or badly injured!

Edited to say, it is probably illegal to set your dog onto a burglar, I am just unsure what the situation would be if a dog, otherwise proved to normally be well behaved and properly trained, attacks a burglar or someone else who breaks in with evil intent?

 

[ABlackSheep]

I have put emphasis on "training" for good reason. A dog that can bite but is untrained or badly trained is a liability. My main dog (GSD) is trained in man work and will attack on command. He is also very defensive of home territory and shows it when strangers turn up. But out of the kennel and when I am around he is everyone's friend. I don't approve of keeping vicious dogs that can't be controlled any more than leaving a loaded gun lying around.

If a dog had been housed in the pig shed and it had attacked this mob, I really don't know how the courts would have viewed it. That's why I posted the question. I suspect it would depend on the circumstances? There's a similar problem with these "guardian dogs" that seem to be getting a lot of publicity. No doubt it will all become clear when someone gets killed or badly injured!

Edited to say, it is probably illegal to set your dog onto a burglar, I am just unsure what the situation would be if a dog, otherwise proved to normally be well behaved and properly trained, attacks a burglar or someone else who breaks in with evil intent?

You make a very interesting point on using dogs as guards. Do your dogs roam free at night? Seems to me the ideal is to have dogs with a good menacing bark that look intimidating but won’t actually bite.

I had a collie once that was as friendly as can be. She was a softy with visiting fiends and family. But if it was the postman or someone delivering something she’d go for them.

My neighbour has two collies. They are kept on chains in the yard when not working and sleep in a shed at night. You’ve only got to turn up the track to the farm for them to bark their heads off.

But here’s an interesting thing. He had his quad bike and tools stolen last year. His bedroom overlooks the yard and the shed where the dogs sleep. And he didn’t hear a thing. The dogs didn’t seem doped in the morning. I wonder how the thieves kept them quiet. Any ideas?

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

Had the same thing happen and dogs didn't bark
Somebody told me that it's possible to get a very very high pitch whistle that will hurt the dogs ears and keep them quiet, to the point where a good working dog ran of when being used with an ordinary whistle after being subjected to the very high pitch one
Only what I've been told

 

[MRT]

If he asked them to leave and they did not then force was not sufficient to make them leave, if he went through the gears of please leave, leave, leave or else, physical surely the force was reasonable as its his shed not thiers?

 

[steveR]

I continue to have great faith in big hairy well trained dogs. Their presence alone is a great deterrent. Would these trespassers have broken in at all if they'd been aware of dogs? This seems to be a grey area with the law and the final decision seems to depend on the court. Unless someone else knows differently.

Pikey types will of course poison the dogs, but maybe the AR nutters might forego this?

 

[JeepJeep]

Bricktop knows.

 

[ABlackSheep]

Had the same thing happen and dogs didn't bark
Somebody told me that it's possible to get a very very high pitch whistle that will hurt the dogs ears and keep them quiet, to the point where a good working dog ran of when being used with an ordinary whistle after being subjected to the very high pitch one
Only what I've been told

Interesting point you raise about using a whistle. As far as I'm aware, you can train a dog not to bark using a high pitched whistle, but like all training this takes time. I'm not sure you could use a whistle to stop a dog barking without training it. Anyone know more about this?

 

[éire man]

Firstly he looks like a big strong fecker and I most certainly wouldn't want one of his kicks or punches

Secondly he shouldn't have taken them on alone. It only takes one of these feckers to pull out a phone and start recording. There's been similar happen on the farm here and you won't find any pics or vids of it on the internet

 

[ABlackSheep]

If he asked them to leave and they did not then force was not sufficient to make them leave, if he went through the gears of please leave, leave, leave or else, physical surely the force was reasonable as its his shed not thiers?

What you say sounds completely reasonable to me. However, it seems that any kind of physical contact with an intruder could lead to criminal prosecution for assault, unless the intruder physically attacks you first. I suppose extreme provocation by the intruder would give you reasonable grounds for physical contact but unfortunately you couldn't belt him too hard. It has to be justified as restraint or self-defence.

 

[ABlackSheep]

Firstly he looks like a big strong fecker and I most certainly wouldn't want one of his kicks or punches

Secondly he shouldn't have taken them on alone. It only takes one of these feckers to pull out a phone and start recording. There's been similar happen on the farm here and you won't find any pics or vids of it on the internet

It's good point. A group of animal rights activists will obviously be armed with numerous cameras. Anything that takes place is likely to be filmed. How did they manage not to get filmed in the incident near you? I suppose if there are two of you, one can cause a distraction which the activists all start filming while the second guy gives one of them a quick demonstration of his self-defence skills

 

[MRT]

What you say sounds completely reasonable to me. However, it seems that any kind of physical contact with an intruder could lead to criminal prosecution for assault, unless the intruder physically attacks you first. I suppose extreme provocation by the intruder would give you reasonable grounds for physical contact but unfortunately you couldn't belt him too hard. It has to be justified as restraint or self-defence.

What is the definition of "force" if not physical contact?

 

[ABlackSheep]

Pikey types will of course poison the dogs, but maybe the AR nutters might forego this?

I think we're at least safe from ARs poisoning dogs