The value of EID reading on sheep farms

[Al R]

Have only been using EID since the spring but has made a big difference to how we are managing sheep and decisions we make with them. Been using it mainly for checking growth rates of lambs and for selecting ewe lambs from the best ewes.

If you can go and see someone who is using it in practise is probably best way to see if it would suit your system, this is how I felt it would be good for us. As everyone says though if you are not going to use the data to make decisions then maybe not for you.

A lot of farmers seem to be really anti EID and say its a waste of time without giving it a go or seeing others using it but there you go, not for everyone.

My dad (63) isn't computer minded at all so hasn't done anything with EID apart from reads them for selling but still writes them down manually anyway!
I've just moved back and me being 27 I am quite computer savvy so even he's thinking of utilising EID but we're not sure if and how it can work running so many breeds that fatten after different weights but we need them all as the farm varies so much! The only thing we can think of that could benefit us is growth weights but we don't think we've got the time to tag and input data at birth :/

 

[Lovegoodstock]

Im having a slight change of policy after 80 odd years of a family system that has worked well!! Slight change has worked well in last few years anyway, simply very strong ewes, fairly large numbers with minimal staff though inside lambing, considering combi clamp and interested in this thread. One thing im intrigued with, is if say buying gimmer lambs and running through as a flock, on the whole going well so return so same person, but you cull persistant offenders be it prolapse, single bearing ewes, underperforming lambs due to say lack of milk, does anyone who runs this type of system have a break down of numbers they cull and for what reason?

 

[Al R]

Im having a slight change of policy after 80 odd years of a family system that has worked well!! Slight change has worked well in last few years anyway, simply very strong ewes, fairly large numbers with minimal staff though inside lambing, considering combi clamp and interested in this thread. One thing im intrigued with, is if say buying gimmer lambs and running through as a flock, on the whole going well so return so same person, but you cull persistant offenders be it prolapse, single bearing ewes, underperforming lambs due to say lack of milk, does anyone who runs this type of system have a break down of numbers they cull and for what reason?

Out of 850 we culled 138 this year.

20 were problem ewes, (4 prolapse), 9-10 mastitis or problem with the udders, 1 completely blind ewe (had been for years but was a good ewe and lambs always went first) and 5 which were horrendous mothers that tried to run from there own lambs etc.
It's not fair to let someone else have these problems so we cull them.
The other 118 odd were good ewes but over 6 years old so we're sold for breeding up country.

We like to have a young flock, 170 ewe lambs are kept each year and bred from.

Ewes are primarily mule's and texel.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

So just under a fifth, give or take I guess the average mark, but blind one, mastitis and aged ones I guess would go anyway eid or not, the 5 nightmare mothers are the ones id like to learn about with eid records, or regular single bearing ewes? Am getting concerned if I went down eid route and marked nightmare mothers, as until this year always lambed 1000 hogs, my flock would shrink dramatically and a two way expensive exercise!!

 

[Al R]

So just under a fifth, give or take I guess the average mark, but blind one, mastitis and aged ones I guess would go anyway eid or not, the 5 nightmare mothers are the ones id like to learn about with eid records, or regular single bearing ewes? Am getting concerned if I went down eid route and marked nightmare mothers, as until this year always lambed 1000 hogs, my flock would shrink dramatically and a two way expensive exercise!!

We notch the left ear of ewe lambs from good mothers and twins, this can be done while marking and ringing at a few hours old outside. If a ewe is a problem we notch the right ear and put a big X across their backs. It doesn't matter how quick there lambs go, the X's go!

 

[redcoo235]

Doing same kind of thing here. Lamb out side so any ewe which give hassle is black marked (assisted lambing, balloon teats, lambs not sucked, bad mother, etc,etc) and if any of her lambs are ewe lambs they also get black marked so come marking they are just ear notched as weathers. Not as precise as tagging lambs at birth and scanning ewes tag to cross reference but better than nothing. I am sure there is equipment that can be set up a gate ways that reads EID tags and pairs up ewes and lambs after going through it a few times.

This is 3 year we have been doing this and have to admit that if we culled out every problem we would be culling about quarter of our ewes every year so have started running a B flock which has a lot of the more minor offenders in it. Not ideal but until more of my homebred ewes come through doing this to keep numbers up and keep me in work!

 

[Lovegoodstock]

Sounds spot on theory in my eyes. As always lambed hogs really, I think a slight pull is harsh as a culling fault, as would be if born backwards. So what faults cause a ewe to fall in b flock and what falls into a straight out? Intrigued as other threads similar with suckler cows, had 4 prolapses with seperate cows over 3 years, none re offended, 2 were as they were calving on bedded area facing arse to lower feed passage, maybe they are prone but as said not re offended. Always keep c section cows / heifers around again, only had 2 have a second ceaser and that would be out of 240 cows in last few years running up to 350 when milking for at least 12 years. As said intrigued with the reliance of culling offenders or stock always a problem!! Can see stats with numbers produced, how they rear them and quality of lambs, but unsure, but sure wrong, in consistency of problem lambing sheep?

 

[neilo]

Doing same kind of thing here. Lamb out side so any ewe which give hassle is black marked (assisted lambing, balloon teats, lambs not sucked, bad mother, etc,etc) and if any of her lambs are ewe lambs they also get black marked so come marking they are just ear notched as weathers. Not as precise as tagging lambs at birth and scanning ewes tag to cross reference but better than nothing. I am sure there is equipment that can be set up a gate ways that reads EID tags and pairs up ewes and lambs after going through it a few times.

This is 3 year we have been doing this and have to admit that if we culled out every problem we would be culling about quarter of our ewes every year so have started running a B flock which has a lot of the more minor offenders in it. Not ideal but until more of my homebred ewes come through doing this to keep numbers up and keep me in work!

I double tag and record all potential replacement ewe lambs at birth (outdoors). Anything that gives bother just doesn't get tagged, so never gets a chance of being kept for breeding, they just get a slaughter tag when they go. If the ewe commits a culling offence, whenever she does it, she has the end off her ear with the pen knife that's always in my pocket. That never grows back. If I have the Psion handy, it's recorded on there too, but I admit that doesn't always get done. It would only be a few a year though, as a lot of those problems (like bottle teats) are easy to get rid of in a closed flock.

In the days before EID, we always used to ear notch all replacement ewe lambs at birth, according to breed and litter size. I've always believed the only time to make that first selection was at lambing time, when you can weed out a lot of maternal problems. Performance later on then weeds out the poor doers from that initial pool.
No good keeping a strong lamb from a cr*p mother with a small pelvis, imo, which could easily be the case if you just select them at weaning.

 

[redcoo235]

Sorry, should have said that if lambs presented ok and just take a wee pull will not bother with a mark. If totally mis presented but young ewe will go B mob unless she is off an age. If serious amount of work needed to get lambs out, black mark. Ewe with dead lambs on first round of the morning and not weather related, black mark. Ewe with half dead pair first round, B flock. Bad mothers, black mark.

Not a exact science in anyway as have to take into consideration ewe condition ie, if my ewes are as lean or fat as hell well what can you expect. Starting to get bit better at it now and certainly noticing the difference with my homebred ewes coming in as getting less hassle with them.

Problem is when your buying a mule ewe lamb at £90+ you are a bit reluctant to cull her out cause she looked at you the wrong way! Not such a problem when you have bred them yourself at just COP.

 

[JD-Kid]

Sounds spot on theory in my eyes. As always lambed hogs really, I think a slight pull is harsh as a culling fault, as would be if born backwards. So what faults cause a ewe to fall in b flock and what falls into a straight out? Intrigued as other threads similar with suckler cows, had 4 prolapses with seperate cows over 3 years, none re offended, 2 were as they were calving on bedded area facing arse to lower feed passage, maybe they are prone but as said not re offended. Always keep c section cows / heifers around again, only had 2 have a second ceaser and that would be out of 240 cows in last few years running up to 350 when milking for at least 12 years. As said intrigued with the reliance of culling offenders or stock always a problem!! Can see stats with numbers produced, how they rear them and quality of lambs, but unsure, but sure wrong, in consistency of problem lambing sheep?

our B flock any black spots don't like the shape of them wool faults lighter ewes poorer teeth at young age etc etc still OK ewes but not the best to keep ewe lambs out of
culls too many probs wornen out teeth etc bearings etc etc cull on the spot
over time A flock should have better types better out puts with less inputs hard eneff to make money out of sheep and high inputs in most cases is not value adding just more costs
talking to a mate the other day has a small flock due to health probs , his accountant alone cost him 10 dollars per ewe
if we make that bigger to our flock accountant per head may only be 3-4 dollars a head inputs soon add up

 

[neilo]

Sounds spot on theory in my eyes. As always lambed hogs really, I think a slight pull is harsh as a culling fault, as would be if born backwards. So what faults cause a ewe to fall in b flock and what falls into a straight out? Intrigued as other threads similar with suckler cows, had 4 prolapses with seperate cows over 3 years, none re offended, 2 were as they were calving on bedded area facing arse to lower feed passage, maybe they are prone but as said not re offended. Always keep c section cows / heifers around again, only had 2 have a second ceaser and that would be out of 240 cows in last few years running up to 350 when milking for at least 12 years. As said intrigued with the reliance of culling offenders or stock always a problem!! Can see stats with numbers produced, how they rear them and quality of lambs, but unsure, but sure wrong, in consistency of problem lambing sheep?

I think it's about reducing the odds of a problem, once you've culled out the 'obvious' problem sheep. Mine get the end of the ear off for mastitis, prolapse, a small/tight pelvis, big teats, stupidly placed teats, blind teats or lame several times. In reality, that doesn't total up to more than a handful a year (closed flock, so not breeding from those types either). Anything else, I will record and make a decision based on what I think caused it and whether it was her fault. If she's not the most attentive mother, but it's her first lambing and I've chased her round the paddock because the lamb happened to be backwards, then I'll cut her some slack.

However, if I was buying in replacements every year, I would be a lot more laid back about what gets culled. There's little point in culling a ewe that has poorly shaped feet, then replacing her with one that might be just as bad once the vendors judicious trimming has grown out.

 

[johnflimston]

Had problem lambing ewe lambs a few years ago with hung lambs, probably helped about 30 out of 150. Kept the numbers to see how they did next year as too many to cull. Only 2 of those needed help next year.
So give them benefit of the doubt now as ewe lambs but any problems after 2nd lambing get culled.

 

[johnflimston]

Is anyone using EID to record DLWG and dosing lambs for worms according to the DLWG,ie. Only dosing the ones not hitting target.
I believe a lot doing it in NZ.

 

[neilo]

Had problem lambing ewe lambs a few years ago with hung lambs, probably helped about 30 out of 150. Kept the numbers to see how they did next year as too many to cull. Only 2 of those needed help next year.
So give them benefit of the doubt now as ewe lambs but any problems after 2nd lambing get culled.

Same here. If they have a small pelvis, then they are tagged to cull, otherwise I think hung lambs in a ewe lamb is more likely down to nutritional management in the run up to lambing being wrong. I feed mine no concs or blocks, and stock them incredibly tight on rubbish grass, but still get a few problems, whatever the ram breed used. I very rarely touch the same sheep at lambing time again, so it's not the ewe's breeding at fault, just the shepherd's ability.

 

[Hampton]

I don't think EID necessarily makes anything better, it just makes it easier. You could do all the above with pen & paper if you were so inclined, it's just easier & faster with EID, so more likely to get done perhaps.

I'm on the allflex system with ilivestock, and one of the benefits is that I get the tags 20% cheaper through the App.
To the OP As others have said, EID is only as useful as you want it to be. It's good for the sheep as it makes it easier to record that which you may not have done before.
Cattle Eid on Allflex is a little more complicated as you have to pre sync the tags, which is a ball ache.

 

[neilo]

Is anyone using EID to record DLWG and dosing lambs for worms according to the DLWG,ie. Only dosing the ones not hitting target.
I believe a lot doing it in NZ.

For those doing this (which does seem a common sense approach), how do you record which ones are drenched, either for vet & med records, or for reference so they're not retained?

 

[Hampton]

My dad (63) isn't computer minded at all so hasn't done anything with EID apart from reads them for selling but still writes them down manually anyway!
I've just moved back and me being 27 I am quite computer savvy so even he's thinking of utilising EID but we're not sure if and how it can work running so many breeds that fatten after different weights but we need them all as the farm varies so much! The only thing we can think of that could benefit us is growth weights but we don't think we've got the time to tag and input data at birth :/

Start simply then, just scan ewe then put a bit of info about the lambing. If you have any problems with the lambs as they are rearing (such as struggling due to lack of mothers milk) as I assume you number the ewes and lambs, then add that to the info. At least it should help with the culls, and at the very least you have recorded the awkward ones.

 

[Hampton]

Same here. If they have a small pelvis, then they are tagged to cull, otherwise I think hung lambs in a ewe lamb is more likely down to nutritional management in the run up to lambing being wrong. I feed mine no concs or blocks, and stock them incredibly tight on rubbish grass, but still get a few problems, whatever the ram breed used. I very rarely touch the same sheep at lambing time again, so it's not the ewe's breeding at fault, just the shepherd's ability.

2 strikes is a good and fair method for hung lambs.

 

[HelenBell95]

Thank you so much for all your comments, really useful! There seems to be a feel decide in opinions. I think the concept is a great idea and data collection is vital on farm but it's finding the time to utilise this data that is often the problem.

 

[exmoor dave]

Is anyone using EID to record DLWG and dosing lambs for worms according to the DLWG,ie. Only dosing the ones not hitting target.
I believe a lot doing it in NZ.

For those doing this (which does seem a common sense approach), how do you record which ones are drenched, either for vet & med records, or for reference so they're not retained?

Yep I'm doing this from weaning or 1st weighing (not including birth weight)

If I drench a lamb I press left button on psion, hit comments and enter a simple "w"
Auto set is for that comment to flag up at next read.

To record the actually med, once I download the Psion data to farmworks I bring up a report of all comments "w" for a date range, make those animals in to a management group and apply meds to them all.


The other way to do it would be to use the phone app to record the med as you are weighing, either manually enter the tag no or get a stick reader to use with the phone.

But to be honest I prefer the comment "w" way as the next time you weigh the lamb it's comment pops up and you can see what a difference the drench made.