The value of EID reading on sheep farms

[Marennydd]

Ok, I like the look of the psions.
BUT!!!! And a huge BUT it is, how do people doing outdoor lambing do the whole matching genetics etc where you put marks for and against the mother on milk supply, ease of lambing, weight of lambs etc if you'll never know which one she is? We've got some ewes that you can't get to within 20metres of so how are you meant to read their tags, around half you can get close enough to get a 'mark' on with some sort of spray on their arse as their running away and you chase them but then your running them away from newborn lambs? @neilo ? And all you others outdoor with your psions ?

During outdoor lambing I only connect the lambs to their mothers of any problem cases, so anything i've had to catch for whatever reason. This then generates a lambing report of 'problem' sheep which are either culled or sent into terminal sire groups. None of the ewe lambs from the 'problem' group are kept either.

I'll tag all the other lambs and id them and give them a birthweight so that there's a dlwg the next weighing.

 

[Al R]

During outdoor lambing I only connect the lambs to their mothers of any problem cases, so anything i've had to catch for whatever reason. This then generates a lambing report of 'problem' sheep which are either culled or sent into terminal sire groups. None of the ewe lambs from the 'problem' group are kept either.

I'll tag all the other lambs and id them and give them a birthweight so that there's a dlwg the next weighing.

Ok this makes a lot more sense! If you have to assist in a lambing do you mark it down as a problem against a ewe? What happens if a ewe has 1 dead and 1 alive lamb by the time you get there and yet she won't come up to reading distance? Can you put down on the 1 that lived's information that it had a twin that died in the womb or at birth etc?

I think it would be good for ewe lambs that "could be kept for breeding" (what we currently notch) but not ram lambs, can get a sample of dlwg but not too much time taken tagging etc?

 

[Marennydd]

Ok this makes a lot more sense! If you have to assist in a lambing do you mark it down as a problem against a ewe? What happens if a ewe has 1 dead and 1 alive lamb by the time you get there and yet she won't come up to reading distance? Can you put down on the 1 that lived's information that it had a twin that died in the womb or at birth etc?

I think it would be good for ewe lambs that "could be kept for breeding" (what we currently notch) but not ram lambs, can get a sample of dlwg but not too much time taken tagging etc?

If i've had to assist then they go in the problem group. I will use the comment facility as a reminder tool if what the situation was if needed. Yearlings get another chance.

Once there is a tag in the lamb and it's been id'd on the psion i can put a comment against the remaing lamb if needed.

In a case of a twin losing one whilst/shortly after lambing I would just tag and mark the remaing lamb as a single. As long as I havent had to interfere then I don't put them in the problem group. The above scenario is one that you do come across but not to often and it goes with the risk of outdoor lambing.

 

[Jim75]

Just about to start recording this year. Stupid question but how is everyone tagging there Wethers? Obviously ewe lambs are double tagged and identifiable. Just for keeping an eye on weights and other management decisions. If it's a slaughter tag how can there weights be recorded. Thanks

 

[polk_farmer]

Yep I'm doing this from weaning or 1st weighing (not including birth weight)

If I drench a lamb I press left button on psion, hit comments and enter a simple "w"
Auto set is for that comment to flag up at next read.

To record the actually med, once I download the Psion data to farmworks I bring up a report of all comments "w" for a date range, make those animals in to a management group and apply meds to them all.


The other way to do it would be to use the phone app to record the med as you are weighing, either manually enter the tag no or get a stick reader to use with the phone.

But to be honest I prefer the comment "w" way as the next time you weigh the lamb it's comment pops up and you can see what a difference the drench made.

So what do you do? Do an egg count first, and then just selectively dose on LWG, taking into consideration pasture quality?

What kind of thresholds do you have for dosing?

Quite interesting, one to save money and resistance issues, but also quite a simple system to showing up how far the lambs can be pushed on a high worm burden

 

[neilo]

Just about to start recording this year. Stupid question but how is everyone tagging there Wethers? Obviously ewe lambs are double tagged and identifiable. Just for keeping an eye on weights and other management decisions. If it's a slaughter tag how can there weights be recorded. Thanks

EID slaughter tags have individual numbers in too. They can't be read visually obviously, but if you have an EID reader at recording & weighing, it can still go into the system as a double tagged sheep would.

 

[johnflimston]

EID slaughter tags have individual numbers in too. They can't be read visually obviously, but if you have an EID reader at recording & weighing, it can still go into the system as a double tagged sheep would.

You can have the number printed on the slaughter tags but have to put a letter in as well so you can tell that it's not lost the other half of a breeding pair. Only costs a couple of pence per tag for printing

 

[MOG]

We have all our slaughter tags printed with the corresponding visual number relating to it by using an M prefix. Works great. Before we realised you could get a non-official type visual number we used to write the appropriate number on the tags with permanent pen. If you look on the spines of the slaughter tags it tells you what the tag numbers of that strip would be and you can work out which number each tag is.

EDIT- Beaten to it lol

 

[exmoor dave]

Just about to start recording this year. Stupid question but how is everyone tagging there Wethers? Obviously ewe lambs are double tagged and identifiable. Just for keeping an eye on weights and other management decisions. If it's a slaughter tag how can there weights be recorded. Thanks

Double tag everything, much simpler at lambing, been there putting doubles in ewe lambs and single tags in wethers,
It's very frustrating when wethers turn up later on missing their one and only tag and you have no idea who they are (with outdoing some sort of process of elimination).

 

[exmoor dave]

So what do you do? Do an egg count first, and then just selectively dose on LWG, taking into consideration pasture quality?

What kind of thresholds do you have for dosing?

Quite interesting, one to save money and resistance issues, but also quite a simple system to showing up how far the lambs can be pushed on a high worm burden

Generally do a fec then drench every thing that has a 0 or negative DLWG,
Sometimes got to adjust as you go- in that if lambs are really flying, say 300g/day then maybe drench at 100g/day and below.

Every lamb drenched gets a comment (just a "w") & comment is set to show up next time animal is scanned.

I'd say at least 60% respond to the drench next time they are weighed, often with very dramatic gains,
The rest don't, so their problem.must have been something else.

 

[JD-Kid]

Generally do a fec then drench every thing that has a 0 or negative DLWG,
Sometimes got to adjust as you go- in that if lambs are really flying, say 300g/day then maybe drench at 100g/day and below.

Every lamb drenched gets a comment (just a "w") & comment is set to show up next time animal is scanned.

I'd say at least 60% respond to the drench next time they are weighed, often with very dramatic gains,
The rest don't, so their problem.must have been something else.

so the ones that lift with a drench yer cull out seeing they love the gun

 

[Jim75]

Double tag everything, much simpler at lambing, been there putting doubles in ewe lambs and single tags in wethers,
It's very frustrating when wethers turn up later on missing their one and only tag and you have no idea who they are (with outdoing some sort of process of elimination).

Thanks. More inclined to double tag and alternate colours and can hopefully pick up on losing tags a bit easier rather than just having one tag and hoping it lasts. Cheers

 

[johnflimston]

Thanks. More inclined to double tag and alternate colours and can hopefully pick up on losing tags a bit easier rather than just having one tag and hoping it lasts. Cheers

We are using shearwell,tags which we like but I also like the idea of the Roxan tags where the end of the yellow EID gage is colour matched to the coloured tag of the pair, easy to replace tags with same colour if you use colours to age sheep.

 

[scholland]

Thanks. More inclined to double tag and alternate colours and can hopefully pick up on losing tags a bit easier rather than just having one tag and hoping it lasts. Cheers

If you so anything store then check bit i think in Scotland if the individual number is on the tag then it has to be recorded when moved as in no batch slaughter tag movement. I can't ferment the exact details but something is in the back of my mind about it! Might not affect you but bear it in mind.

 

[Jim75]

If you so anything store then check bit i think in Scotland if the individual number is on the tag then it has to be recorded when moved as in no batch slaughter tag movement. I can't ferment the exact details but something is in the back of my mind about it! Might not affect you but bear it in mind.

Once we hit a certain date the lambs that are left will be sold store. Would it be too simple to run them through the panel reader, take there numbers and print off the list there and then if that was the case

 

[scholland]

Once we hit a certain date the lambs that are left will be sold store. Would it be too simple to run them through the panel reader, take there numbers and print off the list there and then if that was the case

No that would be fine, i was more meaning store buyers prefer slaughter tags as then they dont have to record the number.
If they buy in full eid then each individual number will have to be recorded, slaughter tags just the dock number and number of sheep.
Its maybe not an issue but was spoken about a few years ago.

 

[Jim75]

No that would be fine, i was more meaning store buyers prefer slaughter tags as then they dont have to record the number.
If they buy in full eid then each individual number will have to be recorded, slaughter tags just the dock number and number of sheep.
Its maybe not an issue but was spoken about a few years ago.

Got ya. Did cross my mind that some buyers see double tags and assume they are ewe lambs aswell.

 

[TGM]

in reply to original question - we've a customer with 3000 easycare sheep, hill lambing, unassisted. all are recorded. Before lambing, all are run through race and last 5 digits of EID sprayed on ewes back. Then you only need to get close enough to read the number from a distance, tag the lambs and in the Psion or Agrident, pair the lamb to the mothers and you're away, without having to get anywhere near the ewe to scan her EID. see video

and lots more videos at http://tgmsoftware.com/youtube_eid.htm

 

[TGM]

Psion (now Motorola) likewise allows ewe to be identified by visible number. AWR stick reader also allows the same - entering farm number, if you press down arrow, display quickly scrolls back from 9 .. 0 so although it doesn't have a numeric keypad, it can be used to enter ewe visible number and then lamb IDs can be scanned,. All the readers mentioned have drop down lists for motherability, viability, birth issues etc