The value of N mineralisation...

[Wigeon]

I didn't plant any linseed this yr, instead opting for a summer cover crop. Painful decision, but first loss and all that.

Anyway, just been to check on progress, and saw this:

This is a 4m strip across the angle of the drilling where I had been messing around with a home made cultivator drill, a few weeks before planting.

The field had a leg through it in the autumn, and was then left. Sprayed off. Then summer cover drilled with horsch duett coulters into beautiful conditions, then flat rolled as it was very dry.

Anyway, question is this. We all know cultivation are "bad", and destroy soil structure and burn up organic matter. But what is the trade off worth in terms of improved crop performance? In my mind this strip is doing more good to the soil than the rest of the field. It is a mix of soil conditioners (buckwheat, vetch, clovers, sunflowers, phacelia, millet)

Is it regenerating?
Is it exploitative?
Given the limited time window for a crop like this, why hold it back?
Are there any easy answers?


Kind of wish I had done the whole field like this, particularly as there isn't that long for the rest to catch up. But that would make me a baddie.

Quite an interesting one.

 

[Wigeon]

Oh, and on the heavier ground elsewhere that didn't get moved, the summer cover looks even worse.

 

[teslacoils]

Chopped straw on top and left until spring, or mixed in, I reckon costs me an extra 30kg ha N. Similarly, where I plant wheat into grass thatch.

 

[Old apprentice]

Warksfarmer, has been drilling with a triton, seed direct drill all times and he has some good looking crops that drill will minralize n,

 

[Wigeon]

Chopped straw on top and left until spring, or mixed in, I reckon costs me an extra 30kg ha N. Similarly, where I plant wheat into grass thatch.

Yup.

I reckon moving ground in the spring before drilling makes an absolutely massive difference to the crop.

 

[teslacoils]

Im open to suggestions for a spray that wasn't liquid N to assist in straw breakdown. Although I suspect that 20kg N and some molasses through a flat fan onto some "oilseed rape" that would surely fail is still best.

N cost, mineralisation, worse preem, lack of straw income = about the same value as baling the straw and getting someone in to plough it. That's before it yields better.

 

[sjt01]

I didn't plant any linseed this yr, instead opting for a summer cover crop. Painful decision, but first loss and all that.

Anyway, just been to check on progress, and saw this:

View attachment 1125951

This is a 4m strip across the angle of the drilling where I had been messing around with a home made cultivator drill, a few weeks before planting.

The field had a leg through it in the autumn, and was then left. Sprayed off. Then summer cover drilled with horsch duett coulters into beautiful conditions, then flat rolled as it was very dry.

Anyway, question is this. We all know cultivation are "bad", and destroy soil structure and burn up organic matter. But what is the trade off worth in terms of improved crop performance? In my mind this strip is doing more good to the soil than the rest of the field. It is a mix of soil conditioners (buckwheat, vetch, clovers, sunflowers, phacelia, millet)

Is it regenerating?
Is it exploitative?
Given the limited time window for a crop like this, why hold it back?
Are there any easy answers?


Kind of wish I had done the whole field like this, particularly as there isn't that long for the rest to catch up. But that would make me a baddie.

Quite an interesting one.

Our experience tells us that if there has been nothing growing on the land for a month or more, we need to cultivate (Karat shallow) to get any crop. I was told that if there are no active roots in the ground, the soil microflora will consume the glomarin and similar which hold the soil structure, so you will need to do cultivation to achieve tilth.

 

[Clive]

I didn't plant any linseed this yr, instead opting for a summer cover crop. Painful decision, but first loss and all that.

Anyway, just been to check on progress, and saw this:

View attachment 1125951

This is a 4m strip across the angle of the drilling where I had been messing around with a home made cultivator drill, a few weeks before planting.

The field had a leg through it in the autumn, and was then left. Sprayed off. Then summer cover drilled with horsch duett coulters into beautiful conditions, then flat rolled as it was very dry.

Anyway, question is this. We all know cultivation are "bad", and destroy soil structure and burn up organic matter. But what is the trade off worth in terms of improved crop performance? In my mind this strip is doing more good to the soil than the rest of the field. It is a mix of soil conditioners (buckwheat, vetch, clovers, sunflowers, phacelia, millet)

Is it regenerating?
Is it exploitative?
Given the limited time window for a crop like this, why hold it back?
Are there any easy answers?


Kind of wish I had done the whole field like this, particularly as there isn't that long for the rest to catch up. But that would make me a baddie.

Quite an interesting one.

you don’t get anything for nothing !

I am (and always have been) a big fan of a little bit of seedbed N when direct drilling

 

[Clive]

Im open to suggestions for a spray that wasn't liquid N to assist in straw breakdown. Although I suspect that 20kg N and some molasses through a flat fan onto some "oilseed rape" that would surely fail is still best.

N cost, mineralisation, worse preem, lack of straw income = about the same value as baling the straw and getting someone in to plough it. That's before it yields better.

humic / fulvic acids ?

 

[ollie989898]

Manure. More manure. Whatever the question one of the potential answers will be more manure.

 

[teslacoils]

Manure. More manure. Whatever the question one of the potential answers will be more manure.

Yes, digestate onto chopped straw is an option here.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Chopped straw on top and left until spring, or mixed in, I reckon costs me an extra 30kg ha N. Similarly, where I plant wheat into grass thatch.

Yes, as an intensive livestock grazier guy I would say that's about what I see.

About 300kg of drymatter less per grazing cycle, if we don't disturb the paddock enough to get all the litter cycling.

.. in 3 grazings a year "the disturbance" grows perhaps 800kgDM/ha more than with the normal practices (where we be kind to the grass 15 times a year, and buy N in, to grow less grass)

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Manure. More manure. Whatever the question one of the potential answers will be more manure.

Yes, particularly firm cattle manure. The N approach is fine to help oxidise some Carbon but also does in the fungi, so we create ourselves a job if we use that too much. It's like fire.

If we can get the fungi through a cow then basically her entire gut contents becomes a brewing vessel full of spores and food, and that's a gift to the soil that keeps on giving, as you can feed the soil progressively more and more residue.
Then we have not only a really happy cow that seems to be immune to everything, but an increasingly stable soil resource to grow crops in.

It's harder to get away from nitrogen without livestock, is the TLDR

 

[Wigeon]

Agreed. I love muck, but can't get enough.

Anyway the question is this: should I have cultivated first?

Say 7-8 lts diesel per ha for the job, for a much better result.

On the face of it the obvious answer is yes.

But that doesn't fit with the wisdom on a soil health front...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Agreed. I love muck, but can't get enough.

Anyway the question is this: should I have cultivated first?

Say 7-8 lts diesel per ha for the job, for a much better result.

On the face of it the obvious answer is yes.

But that doesn't fit with the wisdom on a soil health front...

Yes. Is the obvious answer

Farming itself doesn't really fit with the wisdom on the soil health front, but people keep on at it!

Look at it from the possibility that there is no right way to do the wrong thing, and farm for profit?

 

[teslacoils]

Agreed. I love muck, but can't get enough.

Anyway the question is this: should I have cultivated first?

Say 7-8 lts diesel per ha for the job, for a much better result.

On the face of it the obvious answer is yes.

But that doesn't fit with the wisdom on a soil health front...

Soil health wisdom alas does not best bank account wisdom in this case.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Soil health wisdom alas does not best bank account wisdom in this case.

It all changes over time.
Just with cropping there just isn't much time per crop

Anything we cultivated to put grass onto went gangbusters for a start (on topic) then after a grazing or two looks depressed compared to the rest (which was no-till) so alot depends whether you're looking at the short or mid term risks of these actions.

In my case I'm glad I don't get chucked off the bike, so only having half the grass where the old fencelines were is "well worth it", the notill area is so much more stable that it makes up for the cultivated parts