The war in Ukraine...

[Highland Mule]

just-how-radioactive-are-low-yield-nuclear-weapons

An opinion piece by and for Americans. How and why would you believe them? I’d be calling into question their motivation and a lot of the assumptions they make too - the conclusions are predicated on accuracy of missile delivery and we know how good that is.

What about the contamination spread beyond deadly range? You can’t believe the Russians would avoid making “dirty” bombs, do you? That might not bother a populace on the other side of the world but it would certainly extend beyond borders.

 

[BrianV]

TORONTO STAR​

Ukraine is already going through hell. Cluster bombs threaten to unleash more of it​

Children make up a large number of victims, as they are ‘particularly attracted to the shape, size and colour’ of bombs that can land but not explode until later​

By Allan WoodsStaff Reporter

ukraine-is-already-going-through-hell-cluster-bombs-threaten-to-unleash-more-of-it.html

 

[BrianV]

An opinion piece by and for Americans. How and why would you believe them? I’d be calling into question their motivation and a lot of the assumptions they make too - the conclusions are predicated on accuracy of missile delivery and we know how good that is.

What about the contamination spread beyond deadly range? You can’t believe the Russians would avoid making “dirty” bombs, do you? That might not bother a populace on the other side of the world but it would certainly extend beyond borders.

Not going to worry the Americans then is it?

 

[Highland Mule]

Not going to worry the Americans then is it?

And yet you are naive enough to believe them - when it suits your bias to do so.

 

[BrianV]

And yet you are naive enough to believe them - when it suits your bias to do so.

Bit like you then!

 

[Highland Mule]

Bit like you then!

I don’t believe anyone unless they have demonstrated themselves worthy - so that counts you out, obviously.

 

[BrianV]

I don’t believe anyone unless they have demonstrated themselves worthy - so that counts you out, obviously.

In that case I can't believe how alike we are.

 

[Highland Mule]

In that case I can't believe how alike we are.

Don’t insult me, please.

You continue to make incorrect predictions and share victim shaming and Putin apologist rubbish on here under the guise of balance, none of which I would even consider doing.

 

[Henarar]

In that case I can't believe how alike we are.

He is a self proclaimed troll, have you done that ?

 

[Mr Mackay]

What

Losing troops by conventional weapons the Russian leadership have to accept, losing large numbers of troops to banned American cluster bombs put's pressure on the Russian leadership to escalate & they will.

Those phosphoros clusters the Russians use are no different
Have you been watching too much Mission Impossible

 

[Devil's advocate]

I don’t think he wants more. He’s learned a hard lesson.
Negotiation now should be Western Ukraine joins NATO. In fact it should just happen, no negotiation. Eastern Ukraine remains a Russian client state. Otherwise all we’ve got to look forward to is further butchery and escalation.
It must be made clear that any further Russian expansion will be met with a full response from NATO allies.
Expecting Ukraine alone with no significant airforce and being unable to strike deep into Russia for various reasons is just wishful thinking. Won’t happen. Contouring with that policy will just waste lives. Reinforce, consolidate. Best of a bad job. Can’t win every battle. Putin and his generation will die out eventually.

The valuble part of Ukraine is the East though the huge reserves of fossil fuels, iron ore & arable production. Ukraine needs that wealth & the whole world needs Russia to not be able to ransom other countries.

We can't sit back & watch these self styled strong men steal other countries.

 

[Raider112]

It's being American cluster bombs that will be the difference.

Surely a cluster bomb is a cluster bomb.
If you're underneath it you aren't going to worry where it was made, America is supplying weapons already, they can't drop them on the Ukrainians then complain about them themselves.

 

[Danllan]

Just seen a news article, below, in which HMG 'diescourages' the use of cluster munitions in and even by Ukraine... this is annoying and it makes no sense in strategic, tactical or ethical terms.

Russia has used them since, literally, day one. These weapons will free-up a huge number of more expensive and accurate weapons that are short supply. They can clear an entrenched or wooded area more effectively than general artillery or mortar / grenade fire can. Ukraine is not the aggressor in this war and the war is on its territory, so it will have to clear up any of the inevitable non-viable bomblets - it is a sovereign nation (that's what it's fighting for!) and can make its own decisions about what happens within its borders.

Rishi Sunak says the UK discourages use of cluster bombs in Ukraine

The UK is one the countries which bans the weapons but will continue to support Ukraine, PM says.

www.bbc.co.uk

These weapons do their horrible job really well, there is a strong argument against their general use, since the unexploded bomblets general affect civilians post-conflict. But this is not a 'general' conflict, nor a civil war, it is an existential war for Ukraine's survival as a nation state. The hard reality is that 1) such weapons are necessary; 2) the added amount of unexploded ordnance that they will lead to, will be negligible in the overall picture once Russia is defeated and removed.

SO far, in this war HMG has got pretty much everything right; but this is preachiness where it is isn't needed, won't help and will have no affect.

 

[farmerm]

Losing troops by conventional weapons the Russian leadership have to accept, losing large numbers of troops to banned American cluster bombs put's pressure on the Russian leadership to escalate & they will.

“It's always politically unacceptable and a nuclear triggerpoint until it become a goodwill gesture”

 

[Moors Farmer]

This country is way too squeamish regarding cluster bombs.

Is it any wonder there are some that think the war is being deliberately dragged out?

 

[farmerm]

Not sure if you are a bit slow but I keep saying it will come to the point where nukes will be fired into Ukraine alone & there will be feck all the West can do about it.

You do keep saying it and each time you do you make a prat of yourself. If Russia did resort to tactical nukes it still wouldn’t break Ukraine’s military but Russian’s political standing in the world would be utterly destroyed, Putin would be utterly destroyed, Russia would be utterly destroyed.

 

[Devil's advocate]

You do keep saying it and each time you do you make a prat of yourself. If Russia did resort to tactical nukes it still wouldn’t break Ukraine’s military but Russian’s political standing in the world would be utterly destroyed, Putin would be utterly destroyed, Russia would be utterly destroyed.

Nice excuse for China to claim back land it once controlled too, with large deposits of oil & ethnic Chinese residents.

 

[Danllan]

This country is way too squeamish regarding cluster bombs.

Is it any wonder there are some that think the war is being deliberately dragged out?

Difficult one; they do what they do very well, but they are nigh on guaranteed to leave unexploded ordnance in unknown numbers and unknown places. This almost always has bad consequences for civilians and, as we know, with a particularly horrible effect on children. This is all fact. Yet they do work, and Ukraine is a sovereign state and can make it's own choices.

A for us, the UK, they were still on the books when I was serving, and I wouldn't have had any qualms about requesting or ordering their use, and so helping to protect my men's lives, and mine. But I'd have been equally keen on seeing the leftovers properly cleaned up afterwards.

 

[BrianV]

You do keep saying it and each time you do you make a prat of yourself. If Russia did resort to tactical nukes it still wouldn’t break Ukraine’s military but Russian’s political standing in the world would be utterly destroyed, Putin would be utterly destroyed, Russia would be utterly destroyed.

So you keep saying, maybe you can enlighten us as to how Russia would be utterly destroyed.

 

[Vader]

I was just pondering this morning that I expect what’s left of Ukraine will join NATO and what’s occupied by Russia will sadly remain with Russia. This will be seen as a compromise. It’s a horrible one but likely the most pragmatic outcome.

How many Ukrainians will care?
Apparently of the 180,000 who got visas for the uk, 50% plan to live in the UK most the time.
If that's repeated with others in EU countries...