Makes not a bit of difference what I think, it's what Russia thinks that mattered, the same if Russian missiles were placed in Mexico & what America would think.So you believe America would pre-emptively fire missiles at Russia? You believe the US would launch a strike to kill tens of millions, expose the world to nuclear fall out, a potential nuclear winter and expose Americans to an inevitable nuclear response? You believe missiles based in Ukraine could nullify any and all response, even from silos located in Eastern Russia far from Ukraine? You think a Ukrainian base could nullify the danger posed by Russian nuclear subs, nullify any danger posed by Russian strategic bombers? You keep espousing how Putin will resort to using nukes in Ukraine. Odd because you also seem to think Putins nuclear deterrent is a paper tiger the US could nullify by sitting a few missiles in Ukraine? Brian you crack me up.
The war in Ukraine...
- Thread starter Danllan
- Start date
I find it hard to imagine it would lead to the US bombing civilians and hospitals, mass torture of civilians and mass abductions of children.
The systematic war crimes in Ukraine are the worst in Europe since the second world war. I find it difficult to find an excuse for that, no matter how you contrive to support Russias military objectives.
Do you support it?
Not one bit it's a stupid bloody mess that could have been avoided!
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
the Us should of continued eastbound in 1945?
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
Avoided by who? Perhaps the CIA should have made arrangements such that Putin's mother had a headache in Febuary1952?
No doubt you will argue it could have been avoided by removing any possibility of Ukraine ever joining NATO which fails to take any account of who Putin is and what drives his regime. I will argue it could only have been avoided if Ukraine had been expedited into NATO ahead of 24th Feb 2022. Putin considers Ukraine as Russian and anyone present in Ukraine (and other former Soviet lands) who does not share his view must be either educated, expelled or exterminated, he isn't too fussed about which. He tried to achieve his goal though soft power prior to 2014, then he tried to take Ukraine piece by piece from 2014 to 2022 and when that ground to a halt and was at risk of a reversal he tried to decapitate Ukraine with a 3 day mission to seize Kyiv. Putin wanted Ukraine to be under Russian control one way or another and short of giving Ukraine a viable nuclear deterrent, which would have been a terrible idea, there really wasn't much anyone could do to deter him.
essex man
Member
- Location
- colchester
As you point out, there was something, could have given them security guarantees, there just wasn't the will/popular support.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Ukraine had a written security guarantee, underwritten by UK, US and Russia, in return for giving up their nuclear weapons.
Not much chance of getting any of the breakaway republics to give their's up now, when Russia implodes.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Just to clarify - who could have given security guarantees to whom and for what, would you say? There were already a whole raft of international agreements in place, iirc.
Rumours that Atesh soldiers blew the bridge, interesting as they estimate there are 4000 Atesh soldiers embedded with the Russian military ready to turn when asked/ ready .
Proper propaganda or with different ethnic groups within the Russian army this was always likely to happen?
Proper propaganda or with different ethnic groups within the Russian army this was always likely to happen?
Pity you don’t respect what Ukraine want
As above you write it’s what Russia wants
But your quite happy to say what Ukraine should and shouldn’t have done
Charlie Gill
Member
- Location
- Kent
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
Oh yeah oopsspecial operation
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
50000 Russian tourists in Crimea
Do they not know there's a war on
Bargain holidays though I'll bet.
Pigwoman is some piece of work!
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
No, as I also pointed out it has nothing to do with security and everything to do with Putin, in particular Putin's belief that Ukraine is a false state, that it is a lost part of Russia, that Ukrainians have been led astray and they must conclude they are Russians living in Russia, those unwilling must be expelled or erased.
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
kind of funny how they think it’s fine to launch thousands of missiles at civilian targets; then the odd missile or two comes their way and it’s terrorism.
Plus, i think she is confused about just which country has a clown for a leader
Devil's advocate
Member
- Location
- Posh side of Barnsley
How, of course without Ukraine been plundered by Russia, in the way that Moscow appears to plunder the whole of the Russian Federation.