This is a book..... ......

[glasshouse]

How bad is the drought harvest?

 

[wanton dwarf]

Its the root nodules which make the nitrogen, not actually part of the peaplant.
Science could graft them onto wheat roots, but what inputs company is going to fund that,?
Thats been the perennial problem , no company will fund organic type low input type farmingresearch as they can't sell a product off it

It's the bacteria within the roorts that create Nitrogen. The plant cultivates that bacteria and actively starves them if they do not produce Nitrogen anerobically. But if the bacteria can find a food source other than by the plant they will and do.

With all that comes root disease problems and the fact energy is required for the system to work, energy that currently goes into building Wheat seeds. In other words there will not be similar sized crops.

Unless of course you have "Magic Beans".

 

[Pilatus]

@Blaithin , I have just Googled “Nitrogen Fixing Wheat”and some interesting articles came up.
One article that you may care to look at is the one mentioned in the “Alberta Seed Guide 2018” entitled “On the way to Nitrogen Fixing Cereals” which mentions the research being done at Lethbridge in Alberta, your very own province.
Another article from the uk mentions a joint research venture between uk and china scientists “ Nitrogen fixation engineering in cereals moves a step closer” by coincidence this was also mentioned back in 2018. When I get time I will contact the research organisations mentioned to ask if they have made much progress with the project .
At least I know my idea of leguminous cereals is not so way out (Frankenstein!!! )as some may think,even though I am 70.
Going the next phase of creating the “perennial leguminous cereal”, may be a few years away yet, but scientists surely like new challenges to keep them occupied.
As @glasshouse implies, “What is scientifically achievable is one thing BUT what is scientifically achievable as well as being Financially worthwhile for a business is a completely different matter.So leguminous/perennial cereals will more than lightly never happen, even though they are scientifically possible and would be a great help as regards preventing the need of so much fuel being burned during the cultivation’s and planting of cereals annually worldwide as they are now.

 

[glasshouse]

It's the bacteria within the roorts that create Nitrogen. The plant cultivates that bacteria and actively starves them if they do not produce Nitrogen anerobically. But if the bacteria can find a food source other than by the plant they will and do.

With all that comes root disease problems and the fact energy is required for the system to work, energy that currently goes into building Wheat seeds. In other words there will not be similar sized crops.

Unless of course you have "Magic Beans".

So what if crop is smaller

 

[Blaithin]

How bad is the drought harvest?

Keeps raining and hailing.

 

[wanton dwarf]

So what if crop is smaller

It matters to make a living and feed people.

 

[Blaithin]

@Blaithin , I have just Googled “Nitrogen Fixing Wheat”and some interesting articles came up.
One article that you may care to look at is the one mentioned in the “Alberta Seed Guide 2018” entitled “On the way to Nitrogen Fixing Cereals” which mentions the research being done at Lethbridge in Alberta, your very own province.
Another article from the uk mentions a joint research venture between uk and china scientists “ Nitrogen fixation engineering in cereals moves a step closer” by coincidence this was also mentioned back in 2018. When I get time I will contact the research organisations mentioned to ask if they have made much progress with the project .
At least I know my idea of leguminous cereals is not so way out (Frankenstein!!! )as some may think,even though I am 70.
Going the next phase of creating the “perennial leguminous cereal”, may be a few years away yet, but scientists surely like new challenges to keep them occupied.
As @glasshouse implies, “What is scientifically achievable is one thing BUT what is scientifically achievable as well as being Financially worthwhile for a business is a completely different matter.So leguminous/perennial cereals will more than lightly never happen, even though they are scientifically possible and would be a great help as regards preventing the need of so much fuel being burned during the cultivation’s and planting of cereals annually worldwide as they are now.

Lethbridge has a lot of plot trials. I’ve been there to look at their Kernza. They’re working to get it to have better milling qualities. Have been working on it for decades.

 

[Clive]

In whose interest would it be to invest perhaps millions of pounds/dollars In genetically engineering a cereal crop that is both leguminous and a perennial crop?
Weed control in such a crop will of course create problems.
But after seeing articles in the farming press about farmers trying to grow leguminous crops in crops of wheat I do wonder if the theory of the above has lot going for it BUT and I say again BUT?
Any plant breeder would surely be creating their own down fall if they ever bred such a perennial/ leguminous plant?
The above may seem sci fi rubbish but perhaps an ideal to aim for?????
Perhaps @Clive may care to comment

not sure if what you suggest is genetically possible but perennial wheats certainly are and exist already ( but maybe not yield to financials viable levels yet) Kernza https://wholegrainscouncil.org/blog/2017/10/kernza-perennial-wheat-healthier-planet

companion cropping and moving away from monocultures is possible and some are doing this already with varying degrees of success

as you rightly point out however most of this is certantly not in the best interest of input suppliers hence why farmers are mostly having to work all this out for themselves

 

[Pilatus]

not sure if what you suggest is genetically possible but perennial wheats certainly are and exist already ( but maybe not yield to financials viable levels yet) Kernza https://wholegrainscouncil.org/blog/2017/10/kernza-perennial-wheat-healthier-planet

companion cropping and moving away from monocultures is possible and some are doing this already with varying degrees of success

as you rightly point out however most of this is certantly not in the best interest of input suppliers hence why farmers are mostly having to work all this out for themselves

As many TFF members say “follow the money”,but as you kindly point out if their is no money for suppliers, plant breeders to follow, to put it bluntly it ain’t going to happen. F..k the planet that’s not our problem!!!!!!
Sums up the idealistic hypocrisy of the “we want to save the planet culture”. We / I want to save the planet on my terms and as long as it doesn’t effect my lifestyle.
Rant over .

 

[glasshouse]

It matters to make a living and feed people.

A ton less will pay better if no n to buy or apply
Feeding people is not my responsibility

 

[Blaithin]

Kernza plots at Lethbridge.

 

[Pilatus]

Kernza plots at Lethbridge.
View attachment 985284
View attachment 985285
View attachment 985286

Thanks @Blaithin which year we’re the pics taken?

 

[Blaithin]

Thanks @Blaithin which year we’re the pics taken?

August 2019.

 

[glasshouse]

August 2019.

Is it any good?

 

[Blaithin]

Is it any good?

Kernza?

Well it’s a perennial, I don’t really recall it under much irrigation that summer and Lethbridge is very dry yet look how tall the established plants are. Heads are large but yield isn’t stellar.

It doesn’t have the proper milling qualities. Dough strength, falling number, etc. They’re crossing it with annual varieties to try and get the milling quality and yield up while still having a hardy perennial.

 

[glasshouse]

Kernza?

Well it’s a perennial, I don’t really recall it under much irrigation that summer and Lethbridge is very dry yet look how tall the established plants are. Heads are large but yield isn’t stellar.

It doesn’t have the proper milling qualities. Dough strength, falling number, etc. They’re crossing it with annual varieties to try and get the milling quality and yield up while still having a hardy perennial.

Yield?

 

[Bury the Trash]

Doesnt have to be up to milling standard, in the practical , feed would be ok , same as barley .

Plenty of time to establish fungal hyphae bound to be better at dealing with the dry, big root stock / clump would help cope with water logging as well,stop it drawing so quick as well as soil structure bearing up better . Weed suppression etc etc etc..
Lots of wins even for livestock feed quality cropping.

 

[Macsky]

I’ve got myself a new book, fits right in with the whole ‘back to the future’ fashion on the go just now…

Hot off the press……….in 1757 originally!

I wonder how it’ll square with the carbonistas?

 

[farmerfred86]

In whose interest would it be to invest perhaps millions of pounds/dollars In genetically engineering a cereal crop that is both leguminous and a perennial crop?
Weed control in such a crop will of course create problems.
But after seeing articles in the farming press about farmers trying to grow leguminous crops in crops of wheat I do wonder if the theory of the above has lot going for it BUT and I say again BUT?
Any plant breeder would surely be creating their own down fall if they ever bred such a perennial/ leguminous plant?
The above may seem sci fi rubbish but perhaps an ideal to aim for?????
Perhaps @Clive may care to comment

Ive stood in the trial plots for Kernza wheat in the USA. Its impressive but still a bit new.
Weeds seem to be a minor problem. Once it gets going its very competitive. (I think each plant last 7/8 years)
It is also a GM variety so as a farmer buying this seed it would be very pricey.
I think the breeders realise that selling other inputs is a bad business model if current varieties are failing or about to fail with climate changes.
Selling new GM varieties like this is the way forward (for the USA at least!). It needs cross breeding though as the ear currently looks like rye grass with tiny grains.

 

[Ashtree]

Quite ironic that Clive was reading it on a plane, whist happily contributing to global warming. When will folks think it’s unacceptable to make so many flights?

But the plane was a Fendt. What could go wrong?