Thistles in grass

[serf]

I’ve got two small fields the same, which were reseeded last year. They are also full of clover (red & white) which I’m loathe to kill.

Yours, like mine, look like spear thistles, which should be killed by topping/mowing if you can bare to look at them a while longer? Or I may graze and wipe.

Is it around the budding stage you have to top them ?
Got some on the way in some prota plus from last year and was going to spray them to clean it up for reseed but wonder if better left and topped

 

[Guleesh]

They also cover a lot of ground, killing the grass underneath. When they die, those patches are bare and ideal for more weeds to grow.

Spear thistles aren't causing the bare ground though, they're there because the ground was already bare... they just run their two year course then disappear as they generally get outcompeted at the seedling stage.

 

[neilo]

Is it around the budding stage you have to top them ?
Got some on the way in some prota plus from last year and was going to spray them to clean it up for reseed but wonder if better left and topped

Yes, I think so, when it puts a spear up.

If you’re spraying the IRG out to do a reseed, that will kill the thistles anyway? Just got to stop them seeding before then.
You’ll likely get another flush in the reseed to worry about next year, if there’s already seed there.

 

[neilo]

Spear thistles aren't causing the bare ground though, they're there because the ground was already bare... they just run their two year course then disappear as they generally get outcompeted at the seedling stage.

They will be causing bare ground in the new ley where they are in @hubbahubba (& my) examples, which will get repopulated with weeds or weed grasses after the thistle has died. They are each covering patches the size of dinner plates.

 

[serf]

Yes, I think so, when it puts a spear up.

If you’re spraying the IRG out to do a reseed, that will kill the thistles anyway? Just got to stop them seeding before then.
You’ll likely get another flush in the reseed to worry about next year, if there’s already seed there.

Think these came because the weather was so sh!t Last may , cold wet every day and the seed didn't get away quickly to stop the weeds having a chance .
Just trying to knock the seed bank back a bit before ressed but that will be next spring or backend .

 

[Guleesh]

They will be causing bare ground in the new ley where they are in @hubbahubba (& my) examples, which will get repopulated with weeds or weed grasses after the thistle has died. They are each covering patches the size of dinner plates.

Fair enough, I appreciate they're a big negative when the goal is the perfect field of 'productive' plants. Just sharing my observations, I've created plenty areas of very dense spear thistle during my years of amateurish mini diggering, never bothered with them and they all disappeared completely after a couple of years, admittedly, replaced by what you'd call weeds and weed grasses.

 

[Roy_H]

Buy a topper

Creeping thistles became a real problem in our grass fields but my elders just would not let me spray them . Anyway they did finally decide that something had to be done and we bought a 12' Votex topper. A couple or 3 times a year for a year or two and they soon gave it up. (The fields looked much better + it encouraged the grass to grow too )

 

[Wisconsonian]

As has been said many times, they are a biennial, completely different from creeping thistle. The time to kill them easy by spraying was last fall, they take the herbicide into the roots and don't come back in the spring. Now they have the energy built from last year, and are pushing sugar out from the roots to grow the seed pod and die. Much harder to kill. If you can keep them from producing viable seed, they will be dead anyway.

Isn't there a guide that would tell the best methods for control with your local conditions?

 

[Dancingbrave]

Mcpa really will knock your grass far worse than Thistlex. Shield might be even kinder only one chemical in that

 

[Dancingbrave]

Spear thistle is a biennial, not sure it's worth the effort of killing as it'll die by itself.

After it's produced a million seeds in it's second year it will die

 

[Guleesh]

After it's produced a million seeds in it's second year it will die

Quite right too, always good to have a few of them growing somewhere, they're good for butterflies and birds like goldfinches.

 

[Chris123]

Quite right too, always good to have a few of them growing somewhere, they're good for butterflies and birds like goldfinches.

I quite agree, we have been planting a bit of ragwort amongst our spear thistles the last few years as a bit of variety for the butterflies and birds!

 

[serf]

I quite agree, we have been planting a bit of ragwort amongst our spear thistles the last few years as a bit of variety for the butterflies and birds!

I'd not thought of that gem , will give it a go

 

[Guleesh]

I'd not thought of that gem , will give it a go

You won't regret it, there's nothing more pleasing to the eye than a crop of ragwort and thistles waving in the breeze, surrounded by a nice Japanese knotweed hedge.

 

[Danllan]

Spot spray with Grazon Pro,knocks them flat; obviously, if there is a seed store in the ground, you'll need to repeat until gone, but your grass will not suffer.

 

[Dancingbrave]

Just like Ragwort another harmless biannual

 

[Dancingbrave]

You won't regret it, there's nothing more pleasing to the eye than a crop of ragwort and thistles waving in the breeze, surrounded by a nice Japanese knotweed hedge.

I prefer a Himalayan balsam hedge myself

 

[steveR]

So decided i am just going to have to spray these thistles. I am looking for suggestions on what product or just thistlex? Also should i graze the grass and plantain hard before hand or leave it standing as it is? It may not make any difference and wipe it out either way? Worried if i kill all the plantain it will leave open soil for more weeds. So frustrating.

I had a similar invasion in my one Herbal ley last year that had some seed stitched in....I almost wonder if teh thistle seed was in the bag!

Got my BiL on the baby compact with a 100 sprayer and a 3m pipe and lance...I walked behind and hit them with Polo. Then this Spring, I scooted around with the lance myself with Shield. Very pleased with the result really, minimlam herbicide and minimal damage to grazing.

 

[Chris123]

I had a similar invasion in my one Herbal ley last year that had some seed stitched in....I almost wonder if teh thistle seed was in the bag!

Got my BiL on the baby compact with a 100 sprayer and a 3m lance...I walked behind and hit them with Polo. Then this Spring, I scooted around with the lance myself with Shield. Very pleased with the result really, minimlam herbicide and minimal damage to grazing.

Do similar with quad bike sprayer and hand lance surprising how many acres you can cover in a short space of time and use bugger all spray really. Put a mix in the tank and do a bit as go round the stock. Probably wouldn’t do it on areas as above with a hell of a lot of thistles on, normally spray whole field then spot spray regrowth

 

[Lincsman]

I quite agree, we have been planting a bit of ragwort amongst our spear thistles the last few years as a bit of variety for the butterflies and birds!

The law is still in place to prosecute landowners who allow ragwort to grow.