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Thoughts please...
- Thread starter llamedos
- Start date
Thick Farmer
Member
- Location
- West Wales
Not much money in either of them I'm afraid.
Get rid of the sucklers before winter and sell the silage to a desperate dairy farmer. Sell all straw and grain and take it easy.
If you want to restock, do it in November when prices are lower.
Get rid of the sucklers before winter and sell the silage to a desperate dairy farmer. Sell all straw and grain and take it easy.
If you want to restock, do it in November when prices are lower.
Walterp
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
Neither is on a sufficient scale to ensure a profitable future, so is there any chance of expansion? Or of (say) giving up the arable acreage to keep more cows?
multi power
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
how much land?
what is the land like?
can you grow excellent grass?
elimenite johnes n other diseases as a priority, johnes will take time, test all cattle, dont keep replacments from positive cows n cycle will be broken, good hygine at calving hepls as well
60 excellent store cattle every year will provide a usefull income
multi power
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
have you never been to n ireland walter? plenty of families manage on half of that
- Location
- North Somerset.
How are the cattle marketed, what are the cows fed on during the winter? What is the breeding?
Where is the farm? What is the arable rotation. Can the cattle be out wintered, when do they calve?
Where is the farm? What is the arable rotation. Can the cattle be out wintered, when do they calve?
kneedeep
Member
- Location
- S W Lancashire
Own 100 ac of sandy loam,don't want to let it out to spud men to wreck, rent 100 ac of tatty land that veg men can't manage that'll grow grass ok.
Access to straw ok, veg waste available to winter cows cheapish, mixture of bbx, limx dairy bred cows to decent lim bull, we're more than happy with qaulity of calves, keeping bull entire to finish quickly before johnes strikes, and have kept back a few decent heifers that we've kept clean.
Outwintering not ideal everything visible from roads, lots of busybodies who like the countryside to be clean and tidy, not cluttered up with muddy miserable looking,but well fed cows.
On first name terms with local rspca man,we live in an area of professional complainers.(lots of retired professional types, solicitors etc, with too much time on their hands) so cows are better housed in winter out of sight, but buildings not ideal, no concrete.
Calve 60% in march/april rest oct/nov , am a bit soft re. culling barren cow if she's missed once, will give her 6 months if shes quiet.
Coming to the end of an energy sapping 3 yr divorce, which seems to have drained most of my enthusiasm, two young daughters, and crippled father who will knock around yard till the day he dies.
In the last 20 years 13 family farms (veg) along our stretch of road (5 miles) have gone, farmhouses, barns converted by said complainers.
We kept going cause of cattle, dont like being beaten, there's still a streak of stubbornness not extinguished yet, but I'm wavering.
Access to straw ok, veg waste available to winter cows cheapish, mixture of bbx, limx dairy bred cows to decent lim bull, we're more than happy with qaulity of calves, keeping bull entire to finish quickly before johnes strikes, and have kept back a few decent heifers that we've kept clean.
Outwintering not ideal everything visible from roads, lots of busybodies who like the countryside to be clean and tidy, not cluttered up with muddy miserable looking,but well fed cows.
On first name terms with local rspca man,we live in an area of professional complainers.(lots of retired professional types, solicitors etc, with too much time on their hands) so cows are better housed in winter out of sight, but buildings not ideal, no concrete.
Calve 60% in march/april rest oct/nov , am a bit soft re. culling barren cow if she's missed once, will give her 6 months if shes quiet.
Coming to the end of an energy sapping 3 yr divorce, which seems to have drained most of my enthusiasm, two young daughters, and crippled father who will knock around yard till the day he dies.
In the last 20 years 13 family farms (veg) along our stretch of road (5 miles) have gone, farmhouses, barns converted by said complainers.
We kept going cause of cattle, dont like being beaten, there's still a streak of stubbornness not extinguished yet, but I'm wavering.
jimmer
Member
- Location
- East Devon
drastic approach maybe but
sell your sucklers , and contract rear heifers for dairy farmers , you don't need grade one grazing land and the corn you grow will be ideal to feed them
gives you more time to get your personal life back on track
and who knows in a few years time when things are looking brighter you can start your own herd up again , with clean healthy cattle
I assume you are in a tb free area which is in your favour , but as you well know johnes is crippling and will devalue your herd more and more every day
sell your sucklers , and contract rear heifers for dairy farmers , you don't need grade one grazing land and the corn you grow will be ideal to feed them
gives you more time to get your personal life back on track
and who knows in a few years time when things are looking brighter you can start your own herd up again , with clean healthy cattle
I assume you are in a tb free area which is in your favour , but as you well know johnes is crippling and will devalue your herd more and more every day
kneedeep
Member
- Location
- S W Lancashire
So how many cows do you reckon are enough then Walter ?
- Location
- Limousin
Likewise here in France. Just a matter of resisting all that shiny new equipment and big buildings that are now deemed essential for keeping sucker cows
Recoil
Member
- Location
- South East Wales
I'd keep going with the sucklers. But get signed up to a health programme for johnes. Anything showing signs then sell as soon as possible. This is what we're doing and don't feel bad about culling if it helps get the disease out of our herd. Only animal we buy in is a bull and they need testing for johnes before buying in. If you have 70 spring calving sucklers with some hereford breeding in there it should be a simple system and provide a reasonable income. I only mention hereford because ours do really well with the minimum amount of grass and no cake. Keep it simple.
Baling Hay
Member
I would say give up the cows, not much money in sucklers and rear dairy heifers and maybe keep some sheep as well.
kneedeep
Member
- Location
- S W Lancashire
Recoil : thanks for that
we're in sac health scheme, clear of bvd, etc.
My thinking is that if I can winter a cow on 80p a day
inside, and sell 60 a year fat to average 950 say. feeding my own grain.
then surely there must be some room left in the job,
I'm happy to be persuaded otherwise (Walter)
Steakeater;
sheep are a no go,
rearing dairy heinfers is plan C .
How does that job work?
we're about 25 miles from 'dairy country'?
we're in sac health scheme, clear of bvd, etc.
My thinking is that if I can winter a cow on 80p a day
inside, and sell 60 a year fat to average 950 say. feeding my own grain.
then surely there must be some room left in the job,
I'm happy to be persuaded otherwise (Walter)
Steakeater;
sheep are a no go,
rearing dairy heinfers is plan C .
How does that job work?
we're about 25 miles from 'dairy country'?
Baling Hay
Member
I have no direct experience of contract heifer rearing but have heard that it is profitable. Could you crop all your ground maybe?
Build 9-hole golf course, and tidy stables. Sell hay to complainers' wives and daughters for £7 a bale. DIY livery and some nice rides. Enjoy looking at fairly miserable but well fed (on your expensive hay) horses with stuck up birds with nice arses sat astride them.
Sounds like you have the land and possibly the buildings to put to another use. How about some small scale veg and slaughter your meat and sell to locals?
Surrounded by the idle rich on nice land? Sounds like the potential for some value added. Unless it is already being done to death by other small local farmers.
kneedeep
Member
- Location
- S W Lancashire
You're right on all counts!
Horses to farm shops all done!
There's said to be plenty of profit growing the medicinal weed.
We're surrounded by willing customers, plenty of farmhouses, barn conversions bought by X5, Range Rover sport driving "businesmen" from the smoke!
As bad as job is I prefer farming on the outside, rather than at her majesty's pleasure inside.
d williams
Member
I would suggest there's something else wrong in the herd if only average £950 head dead
Walterp
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
Hmmm, a tough one, right?
Lots of farming families go through trying times - look at Sussex Martin selling his lovely cattle, to help pay for some (hopefully, even lovelier) land; Julie and me enduring an energy-sapping and exceedingly expensive family dispute which has just come to an end after 5 years, leaving Julie having to sell her herd to help buy the farm back, loads of other people going through infinitely more difficult circumstances.
Maybe the only good thing about this watershed is that you get to look at your family situation afresh, from the ground up: who wants what? what's for the best? is money the main object? and - if it is - is that money/cash? or is it money/capital? So you get to decide your priorities - what's essential to you, and what's merely nice. So when you pick yourself up, you know in which direction to crawl.
You're not going to agree with everything I suggest (how could you? - when I'm a retired solicitor with too much time on my hands, whose 21 year old daughter looks just great on a horse...) but that isn't the point, is it? The point is to make you think...
First up, I'm sure your ground is dear to you, but is it TOO dear? Beef'n'sheep is a marginal operation best carried out on marginal land, so maybe your place is too good for it - leading to the obvious question 'in a time of historically high land values, everywhere 'cept Ayrshire, is this a good time to cash it in and use the capital to buy twice the acreage in Ayrshire?' Me and Julie disagree on whether we should have done this - I'd have been keen to move, Julie was, and remains, keen to stay put.
Second, you want to be successful, right? But what do you reckon is 'success'? Is it having a lot of ready cash? In which case, you're maybe best advised to rent or sub-contract out all the land, or rear heifers. Or is it building up capital? If that is the question, then 'cows' is the answer. But remember, no one sells all their cattle if they've got any other options - 'cos of two reasons: (1) as Julie says, 'once you're out of cattle, you're out of cattle for good...'; (2) and, from my neighbour, 'if you rear someone else's stock, when they stop using you they'll leave you without a pot to, err, use'. Because, if it's just down to income, you'll be better off getting a job and renting out the ground, wouldn't you?
Third, once you've decided that you want to be a farmer, and that you like it where you are, ask yourself this: 'if I had to choose between being a farmer someplace else, or staying here but doing something else with my time, which would I choose?' Because that'll sort out your priorities for you.
Cattle? If there is a beef cycle, then the long tough times from 1995 to 2008 may be balanced out by high prices for the foreseeable future, so I'd guess you'd be reluctant to sell the herd. But where to take it? (besides Ayrshire, that is). Well, it sounds like you've got herd health in your sights, you're already strict enough (too strict?) on culling, so all that's left is to work out how to increase output - which, if you're already satisfied with the progeny, just means more cows, right?
Don't care that everyone else slags off more sheds - agricultural buildings are the cheapest investment on the farm, because steel and fibre cement remain very good value. If you stay put, put up another shed.
Lots of farming families go through trying times - look at Sussex Martin selling his lovely cattle, to help pay for some (hopefully, even lovelier) land; Julie and me enduring an energy-sapping and exceedingly expensive family dispute which has just come to an end after 5 years, leaving Julie having to sell her herd to help buy the farm back, loads of other people going through infinitely more difficult circumstances.
Maybe the only good thing about this watershed is that you get to look at your family situation afresh, from the ground up: who wants what? what's for the best? is money the main object? and - if it is - is that money/cash? or is it money/capital? So you get to decide your priorities - what's essential to you, and what's merely nice. So when you pick yourself up, you know in which direction to crawl.
You're not going to agree with everything I suggest (how could you? - when I'm a retired solicitor with too much time on my hands, whose 21 year old daughter looks just great on a horse...) but that isn't the point, is it? The point is to make you think...
First up, I'm sure your ground is dear to you, but is it TOO dear? Beef'n'sheep is a marginal operation best carried out on marginal land, so maybe your place is too good for it - leading to the obvious question 'in a time of historically high land values, everywhere 'cept Ayrshire, is this a good time to cash it in and use the capital to buy twice the acreage in Ayrshire?' Me and Julie disagree on whether we should have done this - I'd have been keen to move, Julie was, and remains, keen to stay put.
Second, you want to be successful, right? But what do you reckon is 'success'? Is it having a lot of ready cash? In which case, you're maybe best advised to rent or sub-contract out all the land, or rear heifers. Or is it building up capital? If that is the question, then 'cows' is the answer. But remember, no one sells all their cattle if they've got any other options - 'cos of two reasons: (1) as Julie says, 'once you're out of cattle, you're out of cattle for good...'; (2) and, from my neighbour, 'if you rear someone else's stock, when they stop using you they'll leave you without a pot to, err, use'. Because, if it's just down to income, you'll be better off getting a job and renting out the ground, wouldn't you?
Third, once you've decided that you want to be a farmer, and that you like it where you are, ask yourself this: 'if I had to choose between being a farmer someplace else, or staying here but doing something else with my time, which would I choose?' Because that'll sort out your priorities for you.
Cattle? If there is a beef cycle, then the long tough times from 1995 to 2008 may be balanced out by high prices for the foreseeable future, so I'd guess you'd be reluctant to sell the herd. But where to take it? (besides Ayrshire, that is). Well, it sounds like you've got herd health in your sights, you're already strict enough (too strict?) on culling, so all that's left is to work out how to increase output - which, if you're already satisfied with the progeny, just means more cows, right?
Don't care that everyone else slags off more sheds - agricultural buildings are the cheapest investment on the farm, because steel and fibre cement remain very good value. If you stay put, put up another shed.
kneedeep
Member
- Location
- S W Lancashire
Thought I'd better be ultra,conservative on my price ,
I've lived through the bse fiasco!!
Last cattle through ring are averaging £1400 apiece
Geld cow hit £ 1600 along with her 16 month old son a month ago.
That was a son from a home bred limousin bull,
I'm happy with quality , and more importantly calving success rate,
Just scarred from 96 when herd devalued massively overnight!
