To sub soil grass now or not

[Farmboymark]

Probably a stupid question with many factors but would you subsoil grassland now or leave it until the spring

 

[ploughman1963]

Conditions round here are ideal for grassland subsoiling now - moisture and flexibility in the turf and yet bone dry 6" down. For my part - I am convinced by what my 'experts' have told me over the years - autumn is the right time to subsoil as the soil below the surface is dry enough to crack and fissure and will have all winter to settle without being run over and recompacted by big tractors and heavy cows. Any root damage caued by the legs has time to recover so you wont get brown stripes and the grass roots have plenty of time to search out the cracks and follow them down below the pan you just got rid of.
Too much moisture down below in spring so whilst you get heave it will be more akin to mole ploughing. Damage to the grass roots around the legs will lead to brown strips of dead plants and grass growth will be hindered as you have damaged roots at a time of year when the plants need as much root mass as it can get. You will see the benefit by autumn but you will lose some production early in the year - you dont get that loss of production with autumn subsoiling.

Dig a hole (in each field at least) to find out where the pan is and therefore how deep to set the subsoiler. Get plenty of weight out front and get your tyre prssures set right for grip/conditions so you dont damage the sward/spin.

For us as a contractor it is a constant battle - farmers all ring up in april full of spring enthusiasm saying, "please come and subsoil" - we tell them the above and suggest they wait until autumn. Next thing you find they have gone and bought a Browns scratchhead: - why would you?) and done it themselves or gone and got someone else who has said "yes, its fine in the spring" and turns up with an unweighted tractor and couldnt be arsed to adjust his tyre pressures - made an arse of the job and mr Farmer announces to everyone at market that subsoiling is no bloody good! Oh the joys of contracting

 

[Kiwi Pete]

^^^^ +1
Couldn't have said it better myself
Have done a bit in the spring due to time availability and it was just as you said - slits opened up, grass browned off.. seemed to stress the grass more and flip it into repro- mode too.
Autumn is the time IMO.

 

[Great In Grass]

Conditions round here are ideal for grassland subsoiling now - moisture and flexibility in the turf and yet bone dry 6" down. For my part - I am convinced by what my 'experts' have told me over the years - autumn is the right time to subsoil as the soil below the surface is dry enough to crack and fissure and will have all winter to settle without being run over and recompacted by big tractors and heavy cows. Any root damage caued by the legs has time to recover so you wont get brown stripes and the grass roots have plenty of time to search out the cracks and follow them down below the pan you just got rid of.
Too much moisture down below in spring so whilst you get heave it will be more akin to mole ploughing. Damage to the grass roots around the legs will lead to brown strips of dead plants and grass growth will be hindered as you have damaged roots at a time of year when the plants need as much root mass as it can get. You will see the benefit by autumn but you will lose some production early in the year - you dont get that loss of production with autumn subsoiling.

Dig a hole (in each field at least) to find out where the pan is and therefore how deep to set the subsoiler. Get plenty of weight out front and get your tyre prssures set right for grip/conditions so you dont damage the sward/spin.

For us as a contractor it is a constant battle - farmers all ring up in april full of spring enthusiasm saying, "please come and subsoil" - we tell them the above and suggest they wait until autumn. Next thing you find they have gone and bought a Browns scratchhead: - why would you?) and done it themselves or gone and got someone else who has said "yes, its fine in the spring" and turns up with an unweighted tractor and couldnt be arsed to adjust his tyre pressures - made an arse of the job and mr Farmer announces to everyone at market that subsoiling is no bloody good! Oh the joys of contracting

Great post.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Conditions round here are ideal for grassland subsoiling now - moisture and flexibility in the turf and yet bone dry 6" down. For my part - I am convinced by what my 'experts' have told me over the years - autumn is the right time to subsoil as the soil below the surface is dry enough to crack and fissure and will have all winter to settle without being run over and recompacted by big tractors and heavy cows. Any root damage caued by the legs has time to recover so you wont get brown stripes and the grass roots have plenty of time to search out the cracks and follow them down below the pan you just got rid of.
Too much moisture down below in spring so whilst you get heave it will be more akin to mole ploughing. Damage to the grass roots around the legs will lead to brown strips of dead plants and grass growth will be hindered as you have damaged roots at a time of year when the plants need as much root mass as it can get. You will see the benefit by autumn but you will lose some production early in the year - you dont get that loss of production with autumn subsoiling.

Dig a hole (in each field at least) to find out where the pan is and therefore how deep to set the subsoiler. Get plenty of weight out front and get your tyre prssures set right for grip/conditions so you dont damage the sward/spin.

For us as a contractor it is a constant battle - farmers all ring up in april full of spring enthusiasm saying, "please come and subsoil" - we tell them the above and suggest they wait until autumn. Next thing you find they have gone and bought a Browns scratchhead: - why would you?) and done it themselves or gone and got someone else who has said "yes, its fine in the spring" and turns up with an unweighted tractor and couldnt be arsed to adjust his tyre pressures - made an arse of the job and mr Farmer announces to everyone at market that subsoiling is no bloody good! Oh the joys of contracting

Bang on the nail.

I sold my aerator and decided not to buy a grass subsoiler for those very reasons. You just can’t get people to do it st the right time.

 

[Bill dog]

Conditions round here are ideal for grassland subsoiling now - moisture and flexibility in the turf and yet bone dry 6" down. For my part - I am convinced by what my 'experts' have told me over the years - autumn is the right time to subsoil as the soil below the surface is dry enough to crack and fissure and will have all winter to settle without being run over and recompacted by big tractors and heavy cows. Any root damage caued by the legs has time to recover so you wont get brown stripes and the grass roots have plenty of time to search out the cracks and follow them down below the pan you just got rid of.
Too much moisture down below in spring so whilst you get heave it will be more akin to mole ploughing. Damage to the grass roots around the legs will lead to brown strips of dead plants and grass growth will be hindered as you have damaged roots at a time of year when the plants need as much root mass as it can get. You will see the benefit by autumn but you will lose some production early in the year - you dont get that loss of production with autumn subsoiling.

Dig a hole (in each field at least) to find out where the pan is and therefore how deep to set the subsoiler. Get plenty of weight out front and get your tyre prssures set right for grip/conditions so you dont damage the sward/spin.

For us as a contractor it is a constant battle - farmers all ring up in april full of spring enthusiasm saying, "please come and subsoil" - we tell them the above and suggest they wait until autumn. Next thing you find they have gone and bought a Browns scratchhead: - why would you?) and done it themselves or gone and got someone else who has said "yes, its fine in the spring" and turns up with an unweighted tractor and couldnt be arsed to adjust his tyre pressures - made an arse of the job and mr Farmer announces to everyone at market that subsoiling is no bloody good! Oh the joys of contracting

Spot on that man ! It’s a great job if hitting conditions ideal !
But if the weather / ground conditions are slightly off, you’ll be doing more damage than good !
I’m dreaming of the day I can get back out with our panbuster(erth), but it has been unused for 2 years now ! When I got it 5 years ago, I did as much of our grazing ground as I could . It does leave a tidy finish with the rear roller( unless you haul up endless stones ), but the amount of rashes that have sprung up in the tracks have fair scunnered me !
I wondered if anyone on here has used Humic Sc from soil fertility services to aid compaction? They claim it opens up the soil to help filtration etc . You spray it on , and can be done in the wet !
Sadly my ground had been too wet to get on with any heavy machinery, so
I’ll need to wait till next year to try it !

 

[Penmoel]

Been putting slurry out with umbilical, drier in November than its been in August , September or October.

Going to try some grazing ground with the sward lifter now, on the advice given here

 

[ploughman1963]

We have about 100 acres to silage with the wagons over the weekend and them the subsoiler will be going in

 

[90hp farming]

Spot on that man ! It’s a great job if hitting conditions ideal !
But if the weather / ground conditions are slightly off, you’ll be doing more damage than good !
I’m dreaming of the day I can get back out with our panbuster(erth), but it has been unused for 2 years now ! When I got it 5 years ago, I did as much of our grazing ground as I could . It does leave a tidy finish with the rear roller( unless you haul up endless stones ), but the amount of rashes that have sprung up in the tracks have fair scunnered me !
I wondered if anyone on here has used Humic Sc from soil fertility services to aid compaction? They claim it opens up the soil to help filtration etc . You spray it on , and can be done in the wet !
Sadly my ground had been too wet to get on with any heavy machinery, so
I’ll need to wait till next year to try it !

I have tried some of plumbo`s magic juice on some grass leys this autumn. I applied in the rain as recommended. I left a swath untreated in each field but cannot yet see any visible difference. Having said that it is not hardly rained since it was applied in late September. I do believe soil fertility`s grass salt dust stuff has done a bit of good and would love for the humic SC to do the same. Another vote here for the erth panbuster. but a lot of horses required to pull it and wouldn`t it be good if one could achieve the same with a little harmless juice out a can...........

 

[Bill dog]

I really hope it does work , as my neighbour has a big sprayer that would be sitting idle on damp days !
I’ve used his xtra grass fert ( plumb dust ) for the last 3 yrs, and after talking with our rep, used none this year to save some £ , and will prob use again next year !
If you suddenly find your sprayed bits drier or greener, do let us know !

 

[Farmboymark]

Ian there much difference between the sumo gls and the erth?
I’ve had a sumo on demo a couple of years ago. Not tried the erth yet. Wouldn’t mind trying one if anyone can point them in my direction

 

[Bill dog]

Hydraulic leg reset on the erth is a big plus, and leaves a nice finish when the ground is right . We got a demo through Gordon’s up here! I’m sure someone in your neck of the woods will have a demo to show you !

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I have tried some of plumbo`s magic juice on some grass leys this autumn. I applied in the rain as recommended. I left a swath untreated in each field but cannot yet see any visible difference. Having said that it is not hardly rained since it was applied in late September. I do believe soil fertility`s grass salt dust stuff has done a bit of good and would love for the humic SC to do the same. Another vote here for the erth panbuster. but a lot of horses required to pull it and wouldn`t it be good if one could achieve the same with a little harmless juice out a can...........

How much per tonne is their “grass salt dust stuff”?

 

[Bill dog]

Are you sitting down -
£130 / ton delivered. Put it on at 5 cwt / acre !

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Is there anything in it besides salt and basic slag?

 

[Bill dog]

I’ll try and dig up the bumf on it! But to look at , its slag ! Does keep the ph up, and keeps the grass green !

 

[Cab-over Pete]

If it’s just slag and salt, which is all I’ve ever thought, I can’t help wonder why it’s that dear.

I’ve been asked to spread some on many occasions. But I’ve never been to the same farm twice........

 

[Bill dog]

The newsletters are rather vague on its make up . The best I can find is from a 2014 newsletter. It’s 66 % calcium lime. That’ll help the ph. The rest is “ a blend of essential products formulated to provide all the minerals your stock needs . “
Guess the remainder is slag n salt !
It does sound like the latest black magic cure all tonic , but the mineral status of my grass n silage have improved no end . And as they say it helps keep the ph topped up!
The boy who spreads it for me hates the damn stuff as it is a slow job for him spreading it at 5 or 6 cwt. He’s always got plenty other places to go, and finds it a right ball ache !

 

[Sid]

Conditions round here are ideal for grassland subsoiling now - moisture and flexibility in the turf and yet bone dry 6" down. For my part - I am convinced by what my 'experts' have told me over the years - autumn is the right time to subsoil as the soil below the surface is dry enough to crack and fissure and will have all winter to settle without being run over and recompacted by big tractors and heavy cows. Any root damage caued by the legs has time to recover so you wont get brown stripes and the grass roots have plenty of time to search out the cracks and follow them down below the pan you just got rid of.
Too much moisture down below in spring so whilst you get heave it will be more akin to mole ploughing. Damage to the grass roots around the legs will lead to brown strips of dead plants and grass growth will be hindered as you have damaged roots at a time of year when the plants need as much root mass as it can get. You will see the benefit by autumn but you will lose some production early in the year - you dont get that loss of production with autumn subsoiling.

Dig a hole (in each field at least) to find out where the pan is and therefore how deep to set the subsoiler. Get plenty of weight out front and get your tyre prssures set right for grip/conditions so you dont damage the sward/spin.

For us as a contractor it is a constant battle - farmers all ring up in april full of spring enthusiasm saying, "please come and subsoil" - we tell them the above and suggest they wait until autumn. Next thing you find they have gone and bought a Browns scratchhead: - why would you?) and done it themselves or gone and got someone else who has said "yes, its fine in the spring" and turns up with an unweighted tractor and couldnt be arsed to adjust his tyre pressures - made an arse of the job and mr Farmer announces to everyone at market that subsoiling is no bloody good! Oh the joys of contracting

Excellent post.

My subsoiler has been parked up ready to go for 2 years for the very reasons you state.

 

[Deutzdx3]

If you can't get on with a sub soiler i.e. To being to wet, we find slitting the top 2-3" works wonders for increasing sword. When I say slitting, I don't mean spiking. What I mean is a blade set at a depth and dragged from one end of the field to the other. Sounds crude but carre use them On their grass harrows. We supply small slitting machines to golf courses for fairways and the rejuvenation is brilliant for making the sword thicker and more hardy.