Too fat to farm?

[Exfarmer]

Dude, read the link?

It stated that Eskimo people had a greater prevalance of stroke, heart attack and diabetes. We know that they exist largely on a carnivore diet. I've explained the mechanisms involved, now you tell me where the connection lies?



Why would it be hard on your GI tract?

You tell me then, you seem to have plenty of opinion on this matter!


I have precisely zero interest in youtube videos- if a video presents some ground-breaking study or similar then kindly post a link and I shall read the fudging thing in my own time, Thank you.

The Innuit are not any groupm nworth studying except to show that the terribbly issues they have with alcohol destroy lives very young. Similar applies to many Aboriginal communities who cannot adapt to the modern world

 

[DaveGrohl]

Dude, read the link?

It stated that Eskimo people had a greater prevalance of stroke, heart attack and diabetes. We know that they exist largely on a carnivore diet. I've explained the mechanisms involved, now you tell me where the connection lies?



Why would it be hard on your GI tract?

You tell me then, you seem to have plenty of opinion on this matter!


I have precisely zero interest in youtube videos- if a video presents some ground-breaking study or similar then kindly post a link and I shall read the fudging thing in my own time, Thank you.

Well that’s obvious. Problem is, because you refuse to look at new info, you will absolutely not learn new things. FYI the guy in the video has a stoma bag so he can see that his carnivore diet produces pure liquid. QED. Hence the question, why would it be hard? But you crack on

And again, for those hard of understanding, the Innuit have moved away from a carnivore diet over a period of decades now (in your ref FFS ) which is precisely why their health has deteriorated to this point. And this is in common with many tribal peoples all round the world. Listen to the bloody podcast.

It's one thing to not read or listen to other people's refs, but entirely another to not even read your own links. Just bizarre. Honestly Ollie, this is getting ridiculous, which is why I rarely bother these days.

 

[Lowland1]

I don’t think Inuits are a good advert for a carnivorous diet. In 1942 their life expectancy was 29 years it has increased with access to modern medicines etc but they are still dying ten years younger that other Canadians. They are a good example of people who need to eat their greens.

 

[ollie989898]

Well that’s obvious. Problem is, because you refuse to look at new info, you will absolutely not learn new things. FYI the guy in the video has a stoma bag so he can see that his carnivore diet produces pure liquid. QED. Hence the question, why would it be hard? But you crack on

And again, for those hard of understanding, the Innuit have moved away from a carnivore diet over a period of decades now (in your ref FFS ) which is precisely why their health has deteriorated to this point. And this is in common with many tribal peoples all round the world. Listen to the bloody podcast.

It's one thing to not read or listen to other people's refs, but entirely another to not even read your own links. Just bizarre. Honestly Ollie, this is getting ridiculous, which is why I rarely bother these days.

You are beginning to pish me off in all honesty with your over-simplistic views. This stuff is highly complex and you're another one who seems to think black/white. You would do to learn something about basic human physiology.

Your observations regarding someone with a stoma bag- irrelevant. Someone with a stoma will produce liquid or not, depending on the site of the stoma, they vary in location. As a general rule:

Small intestine- digestion AND absorption.

Large intestine- absorption of salts/water- formation of solid faeces.

Not producing solid faeces and eating no fibre is not optimal for gut health, we know this because many many studies show it.

I'm not listening to any blood podcast or videos- if pertinent studies are cited, you can post links to them on this forum via the medium of written word, an accepted format for forum communications and I will read them at leisure.

Regarding the Eskimo diet, how come they are experiencing a greater prevalance than the remainder of the Canadian populace when it comes to stroke, diabetes or heart attack? Are they visiting KFC more often than the remainder of the Canadian populace?

 

[DaveGrohl]

You are beginning to pish me off in all honesty with your over-simplistic views. This stuff is highly complex and you're another one who seems to think black/white. You would do to learn something about basic human physiology.

Your observations regarding someone with a stoma bag- irrelevant. Someone with a stoma will produce liquid or not, depending on the site of the stoma, they vary in location. As a general rule:

Small intestine- digestion AND absorption.

Large intestine- absorption of salts/water- formation of solid faeces.

Not producing solid faeces and eating no fibre is not optimal for gut health, we know this because many many studies show it.

I'm not listening to any blood podcast or videos- if pertinent studies are cited, you can post links to them on this forum via the medium of written word, an accepted format for forum communications and I will read them at leisure.

Regarding the Eskimo diet, how come they are experiencing a greater prevalance than the remainder of the Canadian populace when it comes to stroke, diabetes or heart attack? Are they visiting KFC more often than the remainder of the Canadian populace?

Lol, you don’t even read your own refs.

 

[Robt]

Daughters a teacher and sport comes low on the corriculm agenda and its not competative, as no one can be seen to loose
Her husband is a whizz programer, small and thin, little exercise, but hes remained the same since his teens, alot is in the genes

Not in our school in Suffolk. Kids are taught to win.

 

[ollie989898]

The Innuit are not any groupm nworth studying except to show that the terribbly issues they have with alcohol destroy lives very young. Similar applies to many Aboriginal communities who cannot adapt to the modern world

Cardiovascular disease (CVD) is the leading cause of death worldwide. It is generally believed that CVD is rare in the Inuit population because of marine-based country foods that are high in essential fatty acids. However, the evidence is inconsistent (Bjerregaard et al., 2003b). The inverse relationship between country foods diet that is rich in n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) and the occurrence of CVD was first reported in Inuit from Greenland in the 1970s (Bang et al., 1976; Dyerberg et al., 1978). While the age-standardized mortality and morbidity of CVD have declined dramatically in the developed countries over the last few decades (GBD, 2013 Mortality and Causes of Death Collaborators, 2015), CVD and its risk factors are becoming more prevalent among Inuit (Kue and Rawat, 2012). The epidemiology of ischemic heart disease (IHD) and stroke, the two major types of CVD, differ among Inuit and other circumpolar Indigenous populations (Young, 2012). Whereas lower or comparable IHD mortality has been reported for Inuit in comparison with the general population, higher stroke mortality has been reported in both the Alaska Natives, Greenland Inuit and Sami in Sweden (Bjerregaard and Dyerberg, 1988; Bjerregaard et al., 2003b; Chateau-Degat et al., 2010; Hassler et al., 2005; Schumacher et al., 2003). It is noteworthy that cause-specific mortality and incidence rates among Inuit tend to be variable because of small population size (Institut National de Santé Publique et al., 2006; Nunavik Statistics Program, 2015). Disease prevalence data, which is more stable, may provide better insight into the cardiovascular health of Inuit.

This is not an isolated piece of research. It and articles like it mention that these communities are exposed to a lot of environmental contaminants because of the food sources they utilise. Also, what historically would have been a very intensive lifestyle involving a lot of manual work is now far less so because of the modern technology they like to use to save themselves some effort. There are obviously a lot of other confounding factors but to suggest that anyone should adopt a carnivore diet and then cite the Eskimos as a prime example of people who are healthy and whose diet should be replicated is utterly false or misleading.

 

[ollie989898]

Lol, you don’t even read your own refs.

I suggest you read them more. The authors explain their thinking and their work very nicely.

So, since you have so much to say about this issue, why in this study did they find a increased rate of diabetes, stroke and heart attack in their study population compared to other Canadians who all have the same exposures?

Or you don't like this evidence and so you are automatically discounting it? Suddenly your carnivore diet isn't so hot an idea, is it?

 

[ollie989898]

I don’t think Inuits are a good advert for a carnivorous diet. In 1942 their life expectancy was 29 years it has increased with access to modern medicines etc but they are still dying ten years younger that other Canadians. They are a good example of people who need to eat their greens.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0939475309001021

These data show high CHD and stroke prevalence in Alaska Eskimos, despite low average LDL-C and high HDL-C. Hypertension and high LDL-C were independent correlates; identifying these risk factors early and treating to target is recommended.

Red meat consumption associated with increased type 2 diabetes risk

People who eat just two servings of red meat per week may have an increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes compared to people who eat fewer servings, and the risk increases with greater consump…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

 

[ollie989898]

This diet and health type stuff is all rather complex.

Meats, processed meats, obesity, weight gain and occurrence of diabetes among adults: findings from Adventist Health Studies - PubMed

Our findings raise the possibility that meat intake, particularly processed meats, is a dietary risk factor for diabetes.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Results: (1) Subjects who were weekly consumers of all meats were 29% (OR = 1.29; 95% CI 1.08, 1.55) more likely (relative to zero meat intake) to develop diabetes. (2) Subjects who consumed any processed meats (salted fish and frankfurters) were 38% (OR = 1.38; 95% CI 1.05-1.82) more likely to develop diabetes. (3) Long-term adherence (over a 17-year interval) to a diet that included at least weekly meat intake was associated with a 74% increase (OR = 1.74; 95% CI 1.36-2.22) in odds of diabetes relative to long-term adherence to a vegetarian diet (zero meat intake). Further analyses indicated that some of this risk may be attributable to obesity and/or weight gain--both of which were strong risk factors in this cohort. It is noteworthy that even after control for weight and weight change, weekly meat intake remained an important risk factor (OR = 1.38; 95% CI 1.06-1.68) for diabetes [corrected].

So, what can we conclude from all this? Am I saying we should stop eating meat? No. It appears that a balanced diet and that cutting out a lot of highly processed foods, particularly if they contain a lot of salt and fats (any kind) might be a good idea. It would appear that eating a lot of meat seems to be linked to increased diabetes risk.

 

[Lowland1]

This diet and health type stuff is all rather complex.

Meats, processed meats, obesity, weight gain and occurrence of diabetes among adults: findings from Adventist Health Studies - PubMed

Our findings raise the possibility that meat intake, particularly processed meats, is a dietary risk factor for diabetes.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Results: (1) Subjects who were weekly consumers of all meats were 29% (OR = 1.29; 95% CI 1.08, 1.55) more likely (relative to zero meat intake) to develop diabetes. (2) Subjects who consumed any processed meats (salted fish and frankfurters) were 38% (OR = 1.38; 95% CI 1.05-1.82) more likely to develop diabetes. (3) Long-term adherence (over a 17-year interval) to a diet that included at least weekly meat intake was associated with a 74% increase (OR = 1.74; 95% CI 1.36-2.22) in odds of diabetes relative to long-term adherence to a vegetarian diet (zero meat intake). Further analyses indicated that some of this risk may be attributable to obesity and/or weight gain--both of which were strong risk factors in this cohort. It is noteworthy that even after control for weight and weight change, weekly meat intake remained an important risk factor (OR = 1.38; 95% CI 1.06-1.68) for diabetes [corrected].

So, what can we conclude from all this? Am I saying we should stop eating meat? No. It appears that a balanced diet and that cutting out a lot of highly processed foods, particularly if they contain a lot of salt and fats (any kind) might be a good idea. It would appear that eating a lot of meat seems to be linked to increased diabetes risk.

Bleeding obvious isn't it.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This diet and health type stuff is all rather complex.

Meats, processed meats, obesity, weight gain and occurrence of diabetes among adults: findings from Adventist Health Studies - PubMed

Our findings raise the possibility that meat intake, particularly processed meats, is a dietary risk factor for diabetes.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Results: (1) Subjects who were weekly consumers of all meats were 29% (OR = 1.29; 95% CI 1.08, 1.55) more likely (relative to zero meat intake) to develop diabetes. (2) Subjects who consumed any processed meats (salted fish and frankfurters) were 38% (OR = 1.38; 95% CI 1.05-1.82) more likely to develop diabetes. (3) Long-term adherence (over a 17-year interval) to a diet that included at least weekly meat intake was associated with a 74% increase (OR = 1.74; 95% CI 1.36-2.22) in odds of diabetes relative to long-term adherence to a vegetarian diet (zero meat intake). Further analyses indicated that some of this risk may be attributable to obesity and/or weight gain--both of which were strong risk factors in this cohort. It is noteworthy that even after control for weight and weight change, weekly meat intake remained an important risk factor (OR = 1.38; 95% CI 1.06-1.68) for diabetes [corrected].

So, what can we conclude from all this? Am I saying we should stop eating meat? No. It appears that a balanced diet and that cutting out a lot of highly processed foods, particularly if they contain a lot of salt and fats (any kind) might be a good idea. It would appear that eating a lot of meat seems to be linked to increased diabetes risk.

There's a chance people who eat a lot of meat eat a lot of everything, including meat?

I know a fair few people who have cut back [on meat intake] for budget reasons, however there is still money to buy shite in most cases.

I loathe stacking correlation with causation.. and agree with your conclusion above.

There won't be many out there with 200+ ingredients making up their diet, in many cases <20 ingredients makes up a diet, and I can't see it being good for their health, whatever these may be ?

 

[bluebell]

I personally think alot of our, the UKs problems is? we speak english and so do the americans, and that was further cemented in WW2 with american culture taking over, wheres other european countries have "resisted" some/much of the americanisum of their individual countries historical culture? Its like UK agriculture, versus european agriculture, we have "adopted", large, bigger, mega farms, acca the "americian big is best", wheres many european countries still support,favour, "small family farms", abit, with modern machinery as the ideal, ideal in the sense if they want farms to exist in remote mountain parts and not disapear with the struggle of making it "pay" by supporting it/them?

 

[bluebell]

You see this on "youtube", small farms in austria, switzerland, norway, etc, being run by young people working hard, keeping the traditions alive, but farming for a living, not as some "disney world" theme park, where toursits come to stare look at the "twee" cows with the bells, and the funny dressed up farmers leading them? Living in traditional "chocolate box" style houses and buildings?

 

[S.Jamieson]

So much as changed in main stream school education, alot if nearly all for the worst, like not having to compete? try to be the best?, do things you dont like or eat? Eat your greens up they are good for you? Not wearing a school uniform, or if you did, been "inspected" to see how you are turned?, Have you done your tie up correctly? Your shoes need a polish? Most contentious,was in my day "corpral punishment", knowing and we all did, do "bad things" what the consquences would be? Then parents, have parents, who would also give you a good "highding or telling off?

I think this post shows how detached you are from modern life if you think that schools do not encourage children to strive for results, if you think they don't encourage healthy eating.

And if you think corporal punishment by teachers was a good thing.

 

[S.Jamieson]

wheres many european countries still support,favour, "small family farms", abit, with modern machinery as the ideal, ideal in the sense if they want farms to exist in remote mountain parts and not disapear with the struggle of making it "pay" by supporting it/them?

Perhaps we shouldn't have left a large trading block which financially supported small farms through direct payments.

 

[Devil's advocate]

You see this on "youtube", small farms in austria, switzerland, norway, etc, being run by young people working hard, keeping the traditions alive, but farming for a living, not as some "disney world" theme park, where toursits come to stare look at the "twee" cows with the bells, and the funny dressed up farmers leading them? Living in traditional "chocolate box" style houses and buildings?

I thought they were just a tourist attraction.

10 cows & a new Fentd don't add up. The profitable ski slopes explain it.

 

[Exfarmer]

I think this post shows how detached you are from modern life if you think that schools do not encourage children to strive for results, if you think they don't encourage healthy eating.

And if you think corporal punishment by teachers was a good thing.

when I was at primary school one of my classmates who was not quite the ticket got the cane because his writing was so poor. I found that appalling and I can still see him crying in the corner.
At senior school it was very different , we had caning, but it was rarely administered and most of my old school friends had any sympathy for the small group of thugs who where nearly always the recipients. Not helped because our school was selected to receive the kids who had been expelled from several other in that corner of our county. At least 2 of these hated incomers we lost after they tried to burn the school down.

 

[Lamb's Orchard]

The problem originates when people stop preparing food from scratch using raw ingredients and start buying so called 'convenience' food. I have a lot of friends in Italy where historically, there has always been a very strong food culture, but even in those places it is changing amongst the young who no longer cook like the previous generations did. Combine that with less active lifestyles and obesity rates are soaring. They are just one generation behind us, but sadly heading in a similar direction. I try and encourage the younger members of our family to appreciate the fresh produce we grow and to try the different fruits and vegetables. They still eat too much rubbish but most of them are currently a healthy shape and size. The damage is done over time though.

 

[J 1177]

when I was at primary school one of my classmates who was not quite the ticket got the cane because his writing was so poor. I found that appalling and I can still see him crying in the corner.
At senior school it was very different , we had caning, but it was rarely administered and most of my old school friends had any sympathy for the small group of thugs who where nearly always the recipients. Not helped because our school was selected to receive the kids who had been expelled from several other in that corner of our county. At least 2 of these hated incomers we lost after they tried to burn the school down.

My grandad had an old school master who would bray the lads with a cane mercilessly for absolutely nothing a real sadist. A group of his mates and him waited till the last day of school and flattened him, snapped his cane and left him quite shaken. A few years later when my grandad was about 18 and cutting the school pitches for free (great grandfather was local estate manager) the school master rekonised my grandad, grabbed hold of him by his neck and proceded to throttle my grandad. Luckily for him he had been going to change the cutter bar for a sharp one and had an big old spanner in his hand.......result the school master missing several teeth.
Luckily for my grandad this was seen by the head horseman of the estate working in another field so when the local bobby got involved their was a witness.