Toppers - educate me please !

[Wigeon]

I have an ancient 4.5m spearhead batwing, and a muthing 3m front mounted flail.

It's a slow job if you're used to drilling and rolling at 12m.

Batwings:
Brilliant, will cut anything.

Had the spearhead 25yrs. Been overturned in ditches, had some seriously unsympathetic operators, and still it keeps going. Snapped 1 input shaft and done two wheel bearings in that time, other than punctures. Literally nothing else.

Can leave cuttings in stripes.

Doesn't get everything in the wheelings.

Get one with a flat top. Cleaning off is a pita on the old spearhead. Buy a leaf blower...

Best brands are spearhead, razorback and woods.

Your 240hp will take a 6m.

Front flails.

Leave it like a lawn.Bought mine for topping organic leys as wanted zero seed return.

Muthing do suspension springs which are good.

Obviously slower than wider batwing.

Pulling onto the road is less fun.

Buy new.

 

[alomy75]

or for on toast ..........

Sign the Petition

Bring back heinz toast toppers

www.change.org

them were the days..

Wow! What a time to be alive! I’ve never seen those before…?!?!! Although obvs not mushroom ones as for @Clive why are you topping? Yes I top my ab9 but only so my drill doesn’t block up…your disc drill will take it easy surely? Rock up once a year, drill and take the money.

 

[Clive]

We’ve had a rear mounted Kuhn flail since mid 2000’s. 305cm is wide down the road with 4 belt drive on the side. 240hp be far too much they will slip belts whilst trying to push on.
Run ours on JXU 85 or NH 6020 and it drags tractor down rather than slipping belts. Balancing the rotor a problem over 3m so I’d look for a 2.85m if going same again. Hammer flails will run along bottom of hedge and smash thorns coming out in to field. I even reverse over some overgrown elder and it smashes that up well. Bit overkill on AB15 topping.
Just looking at Major front mounted 5.6m cyclone. Looks well built and got 6R 155 to run it with front pto. The Kuhn has left BG in wheel marks on AB15 this year

don’t have any smaller tractors so this is useful info - i need something that can cope with 240hp and not slip belts

 

[Clive]

Wow! What a time to be alive! I’ve never seen those before…?!?!! Although obvs not mushroom ones as for @Clive why are you topping? Yes I top my ab9 but only so my drill doesn’t block up…your disc drill will take it easy surely? Rock up once a year, drill and take the money.

one option we have (ab8 iirc) requires topping under the rules

also a rotational change will mean summer covers that i don’t want to glyphosate but maybe need topping to avoid seeding in July / august

 

[chaffcutter]

Kuhn gearbox rated for 245hp according to the brochure I was looking at yesterday?

 

[Clive]

Having seen mob stocking in the US ,going into massively high covers and cattle consuming 50% then mulching the rest in
Why do you have to top it?

we have grazed cover before and maybe will continue in the future, can’t practically graze 6m margins or corners however and like to have various management opinions to cover different situations - not all our land is suitable / accessible for livestock

 

[Clive]

Not sure what options you have @Clive but if you have AB1 or 8 ( or SFI derivatives) then annual topping will choke out the legumes and/or flowers eventually as it returns too much mulch/fertility back so the grass and brome takes over
We’ve transformed some of our 7 year old AB8’s by cut and collecting with a hired machine, again it’s slow but a better option than reseeding View attachment 1127740View attachment 1127741

interesting - what’s the machine ? who hires ? what’s the cost please ?

 

[Clive]

Topping is a contractors job
The rate they charge won't cover your man and diesel

depends how much there is to do ……. when you have a tractor / man sat doing nothing the fuel is cheap vs a contractor bill for a weeks topping

 

[Lakesdigger]

don’t have any smaller tractors so this is useful info - i need something that can cope with 240hp and not slip belts

If you want a flail to do a proper job of mulching what it leaves behind you are no good trying to go fast anyways. There's no doubt a flail will leave the best finish behind it pretty much regardless of what you are using it on but it will almost certainly be the slowest. 240hp is way overkill for a 3m flail but it won't be working hard to drive it (if at all) so a modern tractor with engine management there shouldn't be too much of a fuel penalty.

 

[T Hectares]

we have grazed cover before and maybe will continue in the future, can’t practically graze 6m margins or corners however and like to have various management opinions to cover different situations - not all our land is suitable / accessible for livestock

It’s a Ryetech machine, it was bought by a member of our Cluster group with some FIPL funding to be made available to group members

 

[Punch]

Kuhn gearbox rated for 245hp according to the brochure I was looking at yesterday?

Maybe they’ve changed the design. Ours is a VKM with hammer flails. Pretty solid and it’s been known for a student to chop up a fallen gate
No damage to gearbox but the 4 belts on side will burn out when neighbours had big JD on it. Maybe a 6215 so over kill really. It’s a tedious job if cutting a lot with 3m so tempting to push on faster.

Alternatively invest in a classic that would keep its value with little cost. That’s why we bought the Case 2 years ago. (Not that the Case is a classic but looked the right price at farm sale)! Yes, costs bit more in insurance but saves me dropping hedge cutter off to go topping. (Topping with 1.5m hedge cutter head even more tedious and not efficient but no wheeling )

 

[Drillman]

Topping is about the most basic job for a piece of equipment other than rolling.

Most s/h toppers have seen better days, and given the price of a 3.0m basic topper, s/h are not even worth considering.

We do a few paddocks with a 6' topper, which is often quite long, with a 25 HP Compact !!

240HP ??????

Sledgehammer and nut comes to mind.

Lot's of inefficiency, fuel consumption, emissions etc when a 100hp will drive a 3.0m comfortably.

You have to laugh ,and its not a dig (well except the stupid rule book ) we are now supposed to be green and carbon saving , so we pay to put cover crops in and then have to heavy flail it off with a 240hp tractor , ffs , yet im supposed to only top 50% of my cs area and then only after july with a 90hp tractor and offset slewtic topper (only takes seed heads / weeds off as a rule )

cheapest tractor is the one you own already.

@Clive whatever you buy buy new. Used toppers aren’t sexy bits of kit. Most are kept till they’re largely knackered.there then normally sold for a large proportion of the original purchase price making them cheap things to own.

 

[Ali_Maxxum]

Maschio Buffalo or Kuhn BPR pro would be my vote.

Have owned both, solid, do a great job, best on front for getting in corners, or just use the side shift on the 2nd time around so only 1 lot of wheelings on that pass.

They make some 2.7/2.8 to maintain 3m overall width.

If you do manage to get one on the front I recommend it be a wet day job, no fun having to keep clearing grilles and rads when it’s dry and chaffy.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

don’t have any smaller tractors so this is useful info - i need something that can cope with 240hp and not slip belts

Can you not see the madness in that , there is not a topper in the world that needs half that power
You remind me of the man who pulls a 10ft land roller with 300 hp

 

[Suffolk Serf]

10ft Votex. Ford 4600. Thank me later.

 

[Lakes Nash]

We have a Slewtic rotary for light work, thistles etc, then a flail for the heavy de-rewinding stuff, gorse, scrub etc, 80 -110 hp, max as that’s all we’ve got, flail going at a slowish pace leaves a great job!

 

[Wigeon]

Can you not see the madness in that , there is not a topper in the world that needs half that power
You remind me of the man who pulls a 10ft land roller with 300 hp

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[Clive]

Can you not see the madness in that , there is not a topper in the world that needs half that power
You remind me of the man who pulls a 10ft land roller with 300 hp

what would be even madder would be to buy a smaller tractor just to do the topping

nothing cheaper than using the resources you already have

 

[PostHarvest]

do sone run of hydraulic motors ?

I don't know what brand of tractor you run, but as an example, a Fendt 824 Vario is rated at 246 hp at the flywheel but will only deliver 93 hp through its hydraulic system. 208 litres/min at 2900 psi = 93 hydraulic horsepower.

 

[Sid]

we have grazed cover before and maybe will continue in the future, can’t practically graze 6m margins or corners however and like to have various management opinions to cover different situations - not all our land is suitable / accessible for livestock

Do you think the payment rates should be greater for land managed in a more environmentally friendly way and penalised done using fossil fuels?