Tractor Batteries

[ACEngineering]

Had similar problem with a maxxum 5130. We got a four cell battery that had more oomph to get her started but still wasn't spritley. Ended up burning out the solenoid and used the part number from the original starter that came off the tractor some 5 years previous which also had a duff solenoid. The new solenoid wouldn't fit the starter on the tractor but obv did fit the old starter. Put the new solenoid and refitted the old starter and crikey there was a difference. Much, much better starting and no heat etc from the draw.

The newer starter had bocsh sticker on it but clearly was a copy and very dull. I gather proper Bosch starters are stamped.

Did that all make sense?

No sense at all
12 volt batteries are 6 cells. never seen a 4 cell battery that would be 3 volts per cell not the normal 2 volts.
To be more accurate 2.1volts is the open circuit voltage minimum any less will cause the build up of sulfation. A full charged 12 volt battery actually measures more like 12.8volts

 

[ACEngineering]

Are you sure your issue is not poor charging,have you 14.4 volts when running.had the issue you describe and it was poor charging ,only 13.2 or so so would charge on a long run but nor otherwise.

or the diode in alternator could be failed and it discharging battery slowly when stood.

 

[milkloss]

No sense at all
12 volt batteries are 6 cells. never seen a 4 cell battery that would be 3 volts per cell not the normal 2 volts.
To be more accurate 2.1volts is the open circuit voltage minimum any less will cause the build up of sulfation. A full charged 12 volt battery actually measures more like 12.8volts

Oh, I was looking at the rudimentary battery layout in the vapormaric battery book. The 642 had more amps than the original which I can't remember the reference of. The 642 has terminals more in the middle than the end.

 

[ACEngineering]

Oh, I was looking at the rudimentary battery layout in the vapormaric battery book. The 642 had more amps than the original which I can't remember the reference of. The 642 has terminals more in the middle than the end.

it does and it don't seem to matter were you buy the 642 batteries from they are all the same just different labels.

 

[Right-arm fast]

starter wont pull 2000amps though or at least it shouldn't be. Battery load tester yes but he already knows the batteries are knackered the question is WHY.

A better way is to measure the voltage across the battery while cranking the engine. (with good batteries)
if all is well you should be seeing (as a guide as some may vary) about 9.5volts or more. any less then it would indicate battery fault, leads, duff starter motor or excessive load on starter from another source ie hydraulic pumping etc.

You can measure the amps starter draws when cranking but you need to know what that starter is meant to be drawing while cranking under load, but it wont be 2000amps! I think the lucas m50 starter on the 4cylinder perkins is just under 600amps?

I don't think the batteries are knackered I think that they may produce a 1000 amps or 125 amp hours but they will not hold enough charge even when taken off and charged with a battery charger. The tractor can be left for months and it wont loose any charge so the tractor isn't draining them but if you start it to move it more than 3 or 4 times the batteries wont have enough power to turn the engine for long enough for it to fire. If it runs for 15 mins its fine again, but you know that if you don't run it for a bit to charge the batteries it will have used up 1 of your 4 starts.
When you turn the key on without turning the engine over it doesn't half pull some amps from the batteries and one of these fully charged batteries I have brought is not capable of giving this amount of amps and turning the engine on its own with out the battery voltage dropping way too low.

Anyway we didn't have a problem with the original caseih batteries so I need a recommendation for the best make to go for please.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

So as I have to buy two more which brand should I look at to get the best?

I like Varta Silver.

 

[manhill]

starter wont pull 2000amps though or at least it shouldn't be. Battery load tester yes but he already knows the batteries are knackered the question is WHY.

A better way is to measure the voltage across the battery while cranking the engine. (with good batteries)
if all is well you should be seeing (as a guide as some may vary) about 9.5volts or more. any less then it would indicate battery fault, leads, duff starter motor or excessive load on starter from another source ie hydraulic pumping etc.

You can measure the amps starter draws when cranking but you need to know what that starter is meant to be drawing while cranking under load, but it wont be 2000amps! I think the lucas m50 starter on the 4cylinder perkins is just under 600amps?

My oops! You're correct on the starter amp rating rather than the battery cca as long as battery at least meets the cca spec. The loading with cold oil in winter doesn't help either. How many tries before the cca falls away is another problem.

 

[multi power]

Have a similar problem with a Newmax battery fitted on a JD6400, year old since may, but last winter wouldnt start the tractor without having the charger on for about 20 mins, checked the alternator voltage, and there was no draw when the tractor was turned off. By now the battery is finished, suppose to have a 3 yr warrenty, taking it back next week to the retailer. Shure there will be some excuse.....

I got a newmax for my mf 1200, started it maybe a dozen times and was knackered at about a year old

 

[john432]

I got a newmax for my mf 1200, started it maybe a dozen times and was knackered at about a year old

Mine was a 115amp hour ,1000amp cranking capacity, so should have been ample for the job, going back next week!

 

[Mike6120]

I like Varta Silver.

Yes, the silver top Varta is probably as good as you'll get in a battery. I've also heard Yuasa praised.....

 

[mushnt grummmble]

I don't think the batteries are knackered I think that they may produce a 1000 amps or 125 amp hours but they will not hold enough charge even when taken off and charged with a battery charger. The tractor can be left for months and it wont loose any charge so the tractor isn't draining them but if you start it to move it more than 3 or 4 times the batteries wont have enough power to turn the engine for long enough for it to fire. If it runs for 15 mins its fine again, but you know that if you don't run it for a bit to charge the batteries it will have used up 1 of your 4 starts.
When you turn the key on without turning the engine over it doesn't half pull some amps from the batteries and one of these fully charged batteries I have brought is not capable of giving this amount of amps and turning the engine on its own with out the battery voltage dropping way too low.

Anyway we didn't have a problem with the original caseih batteries so I need a recommendation for the best make to go for please.

Sounds like alternator issues

 

[ACEngineering]

My oops! You're correct on the starter amp rating rather than the battery cca as long as battery at least meets the cca spec. The loading with cold oil in winter doesn't help either. How many tries before the cca falls away is another problem.

The lenght of till cranking till cca fails is all down to the amp hour rating or ah as its called on battery.

 

[Barleycorn]

Has anyone had a warranty claim honoured for a battery?
I have had several fail in the warranty period and they always find an excuse to get out of it.

 

[ACEngineering]

Has anyone had a warranty claim honoured for a battery?
I have had several fail in the warranty period and they always find an excuse to get out of it.

Yes. Had 1 x 642 sparex battery fail at 15months ish. Replaced no questions asked.
How ever this is the only time i have a a genuine battery fail with in warranty the others have been for other reasons like boiled dry from faulty alternator or such like.

 

[multi power]

Has anyone had a warranty claim honoured for a battery?
I have had several fail in the warranty period and they always find an excuse to get out of it.

Yes excide , no questions asked, he told me that ease of warranty claims is the main reason they sell exide

 

[Barleycorn]

You've both had better luck than me then! Used to buy batteries off APM and never got any luck under warranty.

 

[RimmerF140]

Yes, the silver top Varta is probably as good as you'll get in a battery. I've also heard Yuasa praised.....

We've done well with yuasa, but if you want the best battery get a cat. They're expensive but will start things nothing else will, and we've had 17 years out of them before.

 

[Southmec32]

A battery with a really high .ca is not always the best as they have more plates in them in the same size battery. Only way to get them in there is to make them slimmer which means a lot of rough ground etc can cause them to collapse.

 

[Barleycorn]

Don't know how true it is but I was told that what causes failure in a battery is the lead coming off the plates piling up ad evebtually shorting them out. So if you made a battery with a large gap it would last longer.
No doubt they have a team working on getting the gap right so the battery fails just outside the warranty period!

 

[adamradford]

Hello. First let me apologise for the brazen attempt to promote sales. I work for the UK largest Yuasa battery distributor, we're independent so we also stock many other leading brands! We do alot of work through Fram Farmers supplying batteries to their members. If you would like a quote, please email me at [email protected] or call me on 01825 722116. Thank you