Tractor using alot of ad blue

[Cowabunga]

Yes that’s exactly what you’d expect on an engine that ‘just’ uses AdBlue to control NoX emissions. The two most popular examples of that “AdBlue only” strategy are AGCOpower/Sisu and FPT.

On the other hand DeutzAG went “back” (compared to their T4i/Stage IIIb engines) to mild EGR and AdBlue in Tier 4 Final/Stage IV.

Deere similarly use ‘light touch’ DEF/AdBlue to control NoX emissions in conjunction again with EGR.

In any case all these T4 Final/Stage IV engines (and upcoming Stage V) must use a DPF additionally in the stack to control particulates.

I suspect that AGCO and FPT have now reached or nearly reached the point where they too will introduce some mild cooled EGR. They have from the start adopted the route that provides most efficiency and lowest fuel consumption while meeting emissions with Adblue, while JD started, being very American, started off crowing about 'single fluid' with EGR, but have recently introduced Adblue as well as EGR because they reached the practical limit of EGR. Deere will continue to increase Adblue consumption to meet the next stages, while AGCO and FPT will probably increase EGR, otherwise Adblue consumption will become unacceptable.

 

[Cowabunga]

It takes 200 tractors with the current emission standards to pump as much NOx out under load as my single Same Titan from 1993. That's how far emission standards have taken us. Whether quite that much reduction is absolutely necessary is another thing. Surely 200 times current levels would have killed millions if the figures bandied about today about diesels are to be believed.

 

[john432]

Worried now! Is lung cancer and respiratory dieseases of a higher level in farmers that never smoked, than the general population? Thinking of the fumes I've inhaled ,especially buckraking silage in the top of a silo shed in mid summer. Rolling under the rafters , with the old Davy Brown with the exhaust off, eyes red with the fumes.

 

[Cowabunga]

Worried now! Is lung cancer and respiratory dieseases of a higher level in farmers that never smoked, than the general population? Thinking of the fumes I've inhaled ,especially buckraking silage in the top of a silo shed in mid summer. Rolling under the rafters , with the old Davy Brown with the exhaust off, eyes red with the fumes.

I really do think that the current figures of [probable] deaths due to air pollution in the UK are made up from dubious statistics. The air has not been this clean since before the industrial revolution. My mother worked in London in the early 1950's when pea-souper fog was commonplace. Even I remember going to London in the 1960's and at the end of the day wiping my face and finding a black residue almost as if I'd been spreading basic slag with the cab window open. Even in Aberystwyth the sandstone old university buildings and others would be black from a combination of acid rain and particulates. The old Crossville and Western Welsh school buses in the 1970's used to bellow out soot to the point that following cars had to stay well back from them in order to see where they were going.
Yes, the pea-soup smog caused a lot of respiratory problems and deaths, no doubt about it, and the cleanup of exhausts and especially the elimination of lead and sulphur in both fuels has been very worthwhile, but surely the law of diminishing returns will end the crusade at some point.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I suspect that AGCO and FPT have now reached or nearly reached the point where they too will introduce some mild cooled EGR. They have from the start adopted the route that provides most efficiency and lowest fuel consumption while meeting emissions with Adblue, while JD started, being very American, started off crowing about 'single fluid' with EGR, but have recently introduced Adblue as well as EGR because they reached the practical limit of EGR. Deere will continue to increase Adblue consumption to meet the next stages, while AGCO and FPT will probably increase EGR, otherwise Adblue consumption will become unacceptable.

As you say the two polar opposite strategies, Deere holding out with cooled EGR for as long as possible and FPT championing AdBlue/DEF only - now more or less converging into one. You’ve got to basically employ all the tactics to meet the limits and still be somewhat practical and economic.

What will they do beyond Stage V is anyone’s guess. Stage V will probably be it for the time being. Nothing further is in the pipe, pardon the pun.

Perhaps it will truly be the last step before they start banning them like they have anounced with cars. No joking.

 

[fergie35]

Small terminology correction (not to criticise you, but to inform others).

Next EU emissions are "Stage 5".
NA emissions are still at "Tier 4 final". There are no firm plans for a "Tier 5".

New Holland have just shifted to Tier 5 engine in the UK for long wheelbase T7's, just going into build now. Combines changing as well

 

[farmerbill]

Has the adblue got any rain water in it? Ours was left out with the lid off for a week or so and the tractor used twice or 3 times as much adblue for the rest of that barrel. Went back to normal with a new barrel which is now kept inside!

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Has the adblue got any rain water in it? Ours was left out with the lid off for a week or so and the tractor used twice or 3 times as much adblue for the rest of that barrel. Went back to normal with a new barrel which is now kept inside!

Try and be more careful in future. The added water will weaken the strength, but any other contaminants may f**k your dosing unit.

If it comes to a warranty claim then the dealer may not stand it.

 

[nelson]

New Holland have just shifted to Tier 5 engine in the UK for long wheelbase T7's, just going into build now. Combines changing as well

sorry a bit off topic but when will the t7 have dynamic command in them

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

New Holland have just shifted to Tier 5 engine in the UK for long wheelbase T7's, just going into build now. Combines changing as well

[pedant mode ON]
I think the point has been made by @Toby_1 above, but there is no such thing as Tier 5.

Yankee doodle dandy EPA emissions are set by “Tier” and these stop at the current Tier 4 Final. There are no more tiers.

As we’re not North American, we fall under the European standard which use “Stages”.

To confuse matters there was global harmonisation of Tiers and Stages up to roman numeral Stage IV or 4

There is however no global harmonisation with the next Stage V. So that’s it.

https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/nonroad.php

 

[Macsky]

Claas told me ad blue usage is linked to fuel quality too. Better diesel - less ad blue, makes sense I suppose..

I know Valtras don’t like the old high sulphur diesel, adblue consumption goes up and power goes down. A guy I know had a fill of diesel at a job, turned out it was old high sulphur stuff that he had in a tank for a grain dryer.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

I know Valtras don’t like the old high sulphur diesel, adblue consumption goes up and power goes down. A guy I know had a fill of diesel at a job, turned out it was old high sulphur stuff that he had in a tank for a grain dryer.

The high sulphur diesel must be absolutely ancient! It was last available around 2010/11.

All product since, including gas oil and EN590 has been ultra low sulphur.

The high sulphur content in the fuel poisons the catalyst in the AdBlue unit. It will f**k it completely, so it will use more and more AdBlue as it’s basically...well f**ked.

 

[fergie35]

sorry a bit off topic but when will the t7 have dynamic command in them

I think you might well hear something next year, but who knows

 

[MF 168]

So pay extra to have a new tractors that's good for the environment But your neighbours scraper tractor cancels it all out

I've plenty of older engines here to cancel out the new ladies clean green exhaust. So have my neighbours
In fairness I have to admit I'm all on for the cleaner diesel engines we have today. They may be thirstier and a lot more expensive but the service intervals are double that of the oldies and no doubt many of you have noticed the effect an old tractor running in a confined space has on your eyes and breathing vs a new tractor which you could let run indoors all day and barely notice. I've an old Dexta from my grandfathers time I use on the power washer and it would poison a small county with the exhaust yet it'll got all day flat out power washing on about 3 gallons of diesel. I also remember visiting cousins in Dublin years ago and the buildings were blackened from traffic pollution. There's none of that now.

 

[Macsky]

The high sulphur diesel must be absolutely ancient! It was last available around 2010/11.

All product since, including gas oil and EN590 has been ultra low sulphur.

The high sulphur content in the fuel poisons the catalyst in the AdBlue unit. It will fudge it completely, so it will use more and more AdBlue as it’s basically...well fudgeed.

Still use it in ferries, and tractors within a certain distance of associated piers.

 

[Spear]

They may be thirstier and a lot more expensive but the service intervals are double that of the oldies.

Doubt that very much. Service times jumped when they went to electric clocks but before that they were hours a pto speed now it can be just tick over.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Doubt that very much. Service times jumped when they went to electric clocks but before that they were hours a pto speed now it can be just tick over.

It’s nothing at all to do with electric clocks

It’s more to do with better lubricant/oil technology, better metallurgy and far tighter and more consistent machining tolerances in engines. 500 and 750 hour oil/filter change intervals have been fairly commonplace for almost a decade now.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Still use it in ferries, and tractors within a certain distance of associated piers.

Completely different stuff though. Heavy marine oils used in shipping bear little or no resemblance to fuels used on land. They also deploy exhaust scrubbers (not too dissimilar to vehicles) when used within certain distances from shore.

The shipping companies don’t like it because it costs them money, but they have also had their hands forced by the international maritime organisation with respect to emissions. It’s just that vessels have much longer lifetimes so their emissions tightening has been far longer timed.

What “...tractors within a certain distance of piers” though? You’ve got me intrigued!

Anything on land comes under the respective off-highway emissions legislation.

 

[nelson]

I think you might well hear something next year, but who knows

ok thanks not any time soon then

 

[Spear]

It’s nothing at all to do with electric clocks

It’s more to do with better lubricant/oil technology, better metallurgy and far tighter and more consistent machining tolerances in engines. 500 and 750 hour oil/filter change intervals have been fairly commonplace for almost a decade now.

Need to go back more than a decade. Biggest jumps was 25-30% increase in service intervals when they switched to electric clocks. Before that intervals of 150-200 or less where the norm. It then became 200-300 and was a selling point for a while.