I think you meant that your later plough was a TS39 (TS59 is a mounted plough). This was definitely offered with YLs and went into production in 1940. If the frame width is fixed at 12" your assertion that YL183s were used at the outset would appear to be correct.
Trailer plough
- Thread starter wilt434
- Start date
183s and 165s are interchangeable on mounted ploughs with frogs, support brackets and supports being exactly the same,so how do trailer ploughs differ? The holes in the boards appear to be identical and the only obvious difference is the increased height of the board on the 183 above the support that runs along the back.
rusty nuts
Member
I had a motrac like the one in the picture it had yl frogs and 183s fitted the last motracs made had an oil bath lift i guess in the 60s the frogs on mine were adjustable at the back so not of a mounted plough?
Fowler VF
Member
- Location
- Herefordshire
Sorry, my typo. TS 69 not 59! Crawler ploughs are different, agreed, but it was those earlier Hexatracs that had the 165 frogs. The later ones seem to have the same frogs as the mounted ploughs and are therefore able to take either. Of course that's not to say that someone hasn't swapped them out during the ploughs lifetime, even though the plough was well rusted up in the hedgerow with seemingly original 183s. I know that's what I did with the TS69 that used to be on deep digger boards. I have just bought a 3 furrow Mid Trac, set at 12" and apparently on 183's. Havent got it home yet to check it over. I am planning to use this plough to actually enter competitions, rather than just demoing with the Hexatracs. So its becoming a bit more important than just an academic interest in boards, I do need to know to know if that Mid Trac will be legal!!
There s a need to raise the position of the board stay,to take account of the greater depth of the 183 board. The mounted plough stay will not fit, ending up nowhere near the bolt hole in the frog, the trailer plough stay can be made to line up, but pulls the board down too much.To fit the 183, some form of spacer is required to fill in the space between the stay and frog, not a hard thing to make, but not original ransome, so reinforcing the fact that these boards were not intended for the earlier frogs, and therefore ploughs. Mr Fowler, above makes the point that his two ploughs do have differing frogs.
I have just matched up a 183 board to a 165 and the only hole that will not line up is the back stay hole which is also the front tailpiece bolt hole. 183 board is about 2 inches taller and about 1/4 inch bigger along the bottom. The 183 board is not a genuine Ransomes and the 165 is old and worn so both could account for the 1/4 inch difference on the bottom. I am going by the stays on a no 15 rsld.
QUOTE="Fowler VF, post: 3028528, member: 57664"]Sorry, my typo. TS 69 not 59! Crawler ploughs are different, agreed, but it was those earlier Hexatracs that had the 165 frogs. The later ones seem to have the same frogs as the mounted ploughs and are therefore able to take either. Of course that's not to say that someone hasn't swapped them out during the ploughs lifetime, even though the plough was well rusted up in the hedgerow with seemingly original 183s. I know that's what I did with the TS69 that used to be on deep digger boards. I have just bought a 3 furrow Mid Trac, set at 12" and apparently on 183's. Havent got it home yet to check it over. I am planning to use this plough to actually enter competitions, rather than just demoing with the Hexatracs. So its becoming a bit more important than just an academic interest in boards, I do need to know to know if that Mid Trac will be legal!![/QUOTE]
Ransomes sales literature from the 50's
Shows both variants of the YL and what they were fitted to. Please correct me if I am wrong but I think trailer ploughs were available until about 1963.
One thing it does blow out of the water is the max ploughing depth of 8 & 10 inch for YL165 & 183. This is way outside the 1:1.5 ratio (depth to width) originally given by Ransomes. Must have had to take the discs off or the hubs would have been ploughing 2" deep, although there is a small contradiction in that the max depth of ploughing for the 4 furrow mounted ploughs is only 9"
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Ransomes sales literature from the 50's
Shows both variants of the YL and what they were fitted to. Please correct me if I am wrong but I think trailer ploughs were available until about 1963.
One thing it does blow out of the water is the max ploughing depth of 8 & 10 inch for YL165 & 183. This is way outside the 1:1.5 ratio (depth to width) originally given by Ransomes. Must have had to take the discs off or the hubs would have been ploughing 2" deep, although there is a small contradiction in that the max depth of ploughing for the 4 furrow mounted ploughs is only 9"
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Fowler VF
Member
- Location
- Herefordshire
Brilliant. Shows my TS69 in all its glory. And the multitrac. The TS 69 is designated as being a crawler plough and is shown as being with Epic Bodies, but the Multitrac is designated as being for both wheel and crawler tractors, with all the optional bodies. The TS69 illustrated has the spoked wheels, but both of mine have solid wheels. So maybe they are a later version again, at least one of mine is definitely from the 1960's. My plough legs, and the ones illustrated are more like the "newer" mounted ploughs like the TS59, which again explains why the different frogs and bodies can be fitted relatively easily.
As the literature does state: "Alternative bodies are available for most ploughs" I guess it would be very useful to know what other ploughs could still be ordered at that time. My guess is that Ransomes weren't in the business of turning work away, so if a customer asked for a particular plough they would have got it, and therefore could have had any of those bodies.
I think the MidTrac I have just bought is of similar era to that Multitrac, same sort of solid legs, not the curved, moulded ones on older trailed ploughs. I am taking comfort from this, as it seems to make it more likely that the 183's were available as an original on that Mid Trac.
As far as depth is concerned for all bodies, there is an asterisk by some of the quoted depths, and it says see page 27.
I think Ransomes were a bit hopeful with the multitrac, it would have needed something like an MP6 to move it.A local farmer used to tandem two rslms behind a Marshal, and that failed when he had a multitrac on trial, I was told.Four 15 rslms with 165 bodies were rescued from this farm, but all were distorted, probably a result of being tandemed. His land was light gravel stuff,.
- Location
- 200 miles N,NW of New York
are you sure, as i dont think that is right, or why where they not offered before the mounted ploughs came on the go
the support brackets are not the same, and you cannot just remove 165 and fit 183,
yes they fit the frog no problem, but the mid mounted brackets are different, 165 have a slight bend at the front,
183 brackets are more like a hockey stick at the front with a far bigger bend,
the rear stays will fit either
I was told 165s where made for many years, and the advent of 183 came about as farmers wanted to plough wider furrow as tractor got bigger, nothing wrong with 165 boards when ploughing at 10" wide, but they wont plough at 12" wide,
depth of ploughing does make a slight difference, but not as much as width, as it is the width of the furrow that sits on the board, and that is why the deeper 183 was fitted as they are about 2" deeper board, thus the 2" is for going from a 10" furrow to a 12"
Fowler VF
Member
- Location
- Herefordshire
I cant be sure as to when this one dates from, 1969 is pencilled in at the top of the page. Which could be right, the typeface and style does seem to be of that era. It certainly looks later than the previous catalogue. 1969 seems awfully late to be making and trying to sell trailer ploughs, but who knows? For specialist jobs behind crawlers and maybe for export to third world they might still have had the odd sale. It fits with the story about my TS69 being "one of a pair, the last ever trailer ploughs to come out of Ransomes at the end of the '60's". Interesting to see the range of bodies offered, no YL's mentioned but SCN and TCN among others. The "one of a pair" story didn't make sense to me for some while, until I found an old photo and drawings of tandems. Of course I immediately had to make up a tandem hitch to pull two sixes behind our 1944 D7. We even made up a three plough hitch and ploughed a few acres with 18 furrows!
Attachments
- Location
- 200 miles N,NW of New York
ransomes made trailer ploughs up to about 1970, and any age of trailer plough can plough in the trailer class, but the tractor must be a pre 1960 model,
as for changing the frogs, the pitch is different on trailer ploughs to the hydraulic ploughs, the holes in the leg as are the same and do look like a straight swap,
trailer ploughs have less pitch, as they run hard on the heal, this controls the depth of the rear body,
where as the mounted ploughs have a little more pitch, this is so they work with the draft control far better
on the subject of frogs
also there is other things that are different and only very slightly, lot not seen buy the farmer or others a like,
TCN for example on hydraulic ploughs, there is 2 types for frog, a narrow frog and a wide frog, very little difference,
only a slight different profile and angle where the board bolts on, on later type it is wider, this was so the they board was out a little more, this was for a wider furrow bottom for wider tyres, and was a slight change mid production of the TCN range
as for changing the frogs, the pitch is different on trailer ploughs to the hydraulic ploughs, the holes in the leg as are the same and do look like a straight swap,
trailer ploughs have less pitch, as they run hard on the heal, this controls the depth of the rear body,
where as the mounted ploughs have a little more pitch, this is so they work with the draft control far better
on the subject of frogs
also there is other things that are different and only very slightly, lot not seen buy the farmer or others a like,
TCN for example on hydraulic ploughs, there is 2 types for frog, a narrow frog and a wide frog, very little difference,
only a slight different profile and angle where the board bolts on, on later type it is wider, this was so the they board was out a little more, this was for a wider furrow bottom for wider tyres, and was a slight change mid production of the TCN range
I quote from Anthony Clare`s book, "Ransomes and their tractor share ploughs" page 29. "In 1933 a variant on the YL165 was adapted by the firm Booth and MacDonald, an agent of Ransomes in New Zealand, and became classified as the YL183. This was a deeper form of the 165 and was subsequently manufactured on a large scale " If Clare got his research wrong I would be surprised, but if he was correct I cannot imagine that these boards did not get fitted to the smaller trailer ploughs before they ceased production at least some 25 years later.
I have fitted 183s (non genuine) to a Robin and subsequently changed to 165s (genuine). I do not recall altering brackets and qualified with these for my first trip to the Nationals.
- Location
- 200 miles N,NW of New York
yes your right it is in the book, however something does not add up,
could it be a misprint 1953 maybe?
could it be a misprint 1953 maybe?
Timo@hattonfarms
Member
- Location
- Warwickshire
Any photos of the D7? My boss has a 1950's D7 17a she's a peach 4 cylinder turbo....... hell of a thing!
rusty nuts
Member
There will not be anybody from your area using them at the national then
rick_vandal
Member
- Location
- Soft South
