Umbilical slurry system running costs.

[bigrigg150]

Has anybody worked out the cost of running an umbilical system. I’m talking a tractor mounted pump (doda hd35) a couple of 5 inch and the rest 4 inch pipes and a spreadplate. Being used for contracting. The odd bit of sand in the slurry but nothing too bad. The costs to factor in.....probably a new pipe every year..... replacing the odd coupling.....wearing parts on the pump, the odd new reeler motor etc etc. Just the running cost of the equipment..... not the tractors, i know the ridiculous amount they cost to run ?? thanks for any input?

 

[Speedstar]

Has anybody worked out the cost of running an umbilical system. I’m talking a tractor mounted pump (doda hd35) a couple of 5 inch and the rest 4 inch pipes and a spreadplate. Being used for contracting. The odd bit of sand in the slurry but nothing too bad. The costs to factor in.....probably a new pipe every year..... replacing the odd coupling.....wearing parts on the pump, the odd new reeler motor etc etc. Just the running cost of the equipment..... not the tractors, i know the ridiculous amount they cost to run ?? thanks for any input?

How much are you planning on doing ?
What kind of land are you working on ?
We have a cost per cube to run our set up but is is total different to a tractor pump set .

 

[agcon1]

pipe is circa £9/£13 a mtr depending on brand, will last 4/5 years if used carefully and also depends on soil type (ie stoney/flinty), if not used to much the pipe will perish on the corner where its folded...better using it than storing it!, don't care how much or how little sand there is IT WILL EAT YOUR PUMP, plan on 1200 quid to rebuild pump, a lot more if you wear through the oil jacket and fill the gearbox with muck....we don't run hd's for that reason, second had pipe is worth very little so depreciation is very high on investment....(but still theres hero's out there for £65 hr all in!) I bought my first full set up in 1997, so been at it a very long time, if you take out the cost of 2 tractors on their normal hourly charge out rate, it leaves £40 hr per hour that's attributed to the slurry tackle based on my full charge out rate for doing the job, we charge set price from arriving to leaving....some charge less for setting up, ….with due respect to pump drivers, you need some one's who sharp enough but can also switch off for long periods....they all think its the job to be on, getting paid to sit and do nothing, but when they've had 60-80 hrs a week in the winter doing naff all they soon get bored....staff need paying very well on that job!, just my experience!
edit....forgot to say, our pumping tractor runs on farmers fuel.....on the same farm, pumping one way down short pipe you can use say 12ltrs fuel an hr.....pump up hill the other way with all the pipe out and you can use 28ltrs an hr.... how can you set a fair hourly rate for each job when they can differ so much?, this way is fair to both parties

 

[bigrigg150]

We already run 2 systems and we scramble a 3rd one together in the spring time when it gets really hectic. My old man has always treat it as a service that basically just keeps the chopping customers happy but the more i think about it that just seems ridiculous. WE have one customer that beds on sand but it is a huge lagoon with alot of water going in and they dont really stir it up so it is not to bad. Although i have been on farms in the past where it is like grinding paste and it is unbelievable how quick it wears through the outer casting. I agree that you do need good men on and as soon as you are on the umbilical hot seat you are expected to do long hours and it is becoming harder and harder to find men that want to do it. We got our first system in 2000. Working on grassland with no real stone and flint. We do go on some quite small farms with hardcore tracks and narrow gateways so there can be alot of reeling in/out down tracks and through tight farm yards. We also go to alot of good farms aswell reeling straight into the field. We run on the farmers fuel. We are on two different rates for reeling and pumping. Run a dribble bar in the spring and summer and charge another £8 hr for running that. Nobody around this area is getting the "hero" rate youre talking about, id be happy to get that, especially on a flat rate. Anyways we are currently working out the running costs ourselves i just wondered if anybody had a figure worked out already. The easy bit is worked out at 2 x men = £10/12 hour 2 x tractors = £10/12 hr?? We have an engine pump with remote but havent just got into the habit of using it yet. Pump men tend to like sitting with the heater on in a nice new tractor with a pump on the back. 3 New lads set up with pipe systems in the area has got me thinking about this crazy old job.

 

[RAF]

Are they doin it cheap or by the cube ? By the cube seams be the way to go ? Stick to your chopping let them pump and get them trailering ??

 

[bigrigg150]

Everybody is hourly around here.

 

[Speedstar]

Everybody is hourly around here.

By the hour 4" hose take your time with nothing special is the only way to do it
By the cube is a whole different ball game

 

[bigrigg150]

By the hour 4" hose take your time with nothing special is the only way to do it
By the cube is a whole different ball game

i cant just work out what you mean there. are you saying use 4 inch pipe, take youre time and keep it simple is the way forward or are you saying charge by the cube is the way forward?
Also when charging by the cube how do you go on when its spring and the customer tells me to put about 1500 gallon to the acre on? i often back the revs of on the pump because i cant travel fast enough/turn around fast enough to put that little sh!t on with it pumping at full bore. do you charge more for covering lots of acres with little slurry? also if youre pumping a long way up a hill with lots of pipe out do you charge extra for the second pump? do you charge extra for setting up time like putting ramps out, pulling pipes through woods, under roads, over streams etc?? Charging by the cube must cost the farmer roughly the same as hourly does it?

 

[Blue.]

@bigrigg150 the trouble is your damned if you do and damned if you don’t,give in with the cord and the opposition is in there on the farm saying “I’ll do your silage this year for you”

Rule number 1 should be that the engine driven pump goes out 1st,maybe rig up some sort of insulated personnel box that’s heated via the engine coolant,ideally pump should go out with one tractor only,you don’t want pumping lad sitting keeping warm in a £100k tractor.

As you know just like cutting silage there is farms that make everything hard work and farms that don’t,some just need to be charged by the hour.

 

[davedb]

Could you pick your best farms and run the engine pump with a remote on it then send your other team to the places you need two men (awkward reeling, reception pits ect) I hope to get my system setup so I can use one man and tractor to save the £10 an hour employing men but it’s different if you can keep lads busy all year around

 

[Mc115reed]

i cant just work out what you mean there. are you saying use 4 inch pipe, take youre time and keep it simple is the way forward or are you saying charge by the cube is the way forward?
Also when charging by the cube how do you go on when its spring and the customer tells me to put about 1500 gallon to the acre on? i often back the revs of on the pump because i cant travel fast enough/turn around fast enough to put that little sh!t on with it pumping at full bore. do you charge more for covering lots of acres with little slurry? also if youre pumping a long way up a hill with lots of pipe out do you charge extra for the second pump? do you charge extra for setting up time like putting ramps out, pulling pipes through woods, under roads, over streams etc?? Charging by the cube must cost the farmer roughly the same as hourly does it?

We’ve recently moved from hourly too m3 and farmers are getting the same bill they always have near enough the only difference is we are getting round people quicker because we’re shifting more m3/hr than on the standard 4inch system running 20k gallon a hour instead we’re running at 40k gallon a hour 80% of the time ...

We still charge by the hour at the places that are thick as f**k and no hope of putting it through the dribble bar because we know we’re always gonna have sh!t output ...

We charge by the m3, no charge for setting up but it’s very rare takes longer than half hour to reel out .. we then charge a hire rate for ramps and a per hour rate for unblocking the pump and charge a hourly rate on top if we have to put second pump in

 

[deleted user 837354]

Been a long time since I did it but I used to be the second chap, keep an eye on remote engine and flow meter, watch reception pit, walk pipe a bit to look for leaks or any worn bits and also could reel out/in other lengths of pipe whilst other man went up and down?

Even with the tractor engine off you can sit warm in the cab, keep a few films on your phone to watch etc to pass the time?

Can be a lonely job just the two of you much less one man alone.

 

[Speedstar]

i cant just work out what you mean there. are you saying use 4 inch pipe, take youre time and keep it simple is the way forward or are you saying charge by the cube is the way forward?
Also when charging by the cube how do you go on when its spring and the customer tells me to put about 1500 gallon to the acre on? i often back the revs of on the pump because i cant travel fast enough/turn around fast enough to put that little sh!t on with it pumping at full bore. do you charge more for covering lots of acres with little slurry? also if youre pumping a long way up a hill with lots of pipe out do you charge extra for the second pump? do you charge extra for setting up time like putting ramps out, pulling pipes through woods, under roads, over streams etc?? Charging by the cube must cost the farmer roughly the same as hourly does it?

We used to run a 4" system years ago And charged by the hour but , we wanted to move on & get work done fast & efficient , so we set to & built a big set with 6" supply lines & 5" drag hose & keeped a little 4" to drag if it was very wet & when on the charge but the cube 5 or 6 years ago & this works for us but there is a hell of a lot of money in this set so need to be moving large amounts of slurry when we are working to make it all stack up, we have made lots of things to make the job easier & faster, , 2 reelers can put out 4000 meters of hose in an hour & wrap it up again as fast with the hose humper,we have a up & over road cross which is fast to take up & down, All of this is built in to the price we charge by the cube, less money for 1000 meters of hose & then it goes up for every 1000 meters we use , but do not charge for a second pump as it is in our interest to keep the flow up & if you can get another 100 cube an hour with a second them then run it for free.

 

[agcon1]

The easy bit is worked out at 2 x men = £10/12 hour 2 x tractors = £10/12 hr?

I think you need to do your sums again on the labour and tractors before you think about the umbilical!!!, you say youd be glad to get £65 hr....jeez, round here its nearly double that, you wouldnt get 2 tractors on their own for £65.....

 

[Blue.]

I think you need to do your sums again on the labour and tractors before you think about the umbilical!!!, you say youd be glad to get £65 hr....jeez, round here its nearly double that, you wouldnt get 2 tractors on their own for £65.....

So what does he do when the others in the area are on £55 or so?

As I posted you don’t really want them muscling in and nicking your other work.

 

[agcon1]

So what does he do when the others in the area are on £55 or so?

As I posted you don’t really want them muscling in and nicking your other work.

but hes not even covering his costs, let alone making a profit.....so why?....just why would you do it?

 

[bigrigg150]

Very interesting stuff folks!? m3 cube is obviously the way forward as it motivates you to get the job done quicker. At the moment I’ve lads working for me telling me to get all 5inch pipe and get the job done quicker and I’m here thinking well by improving the system , getting the job done quicker,,I’m actually making less money ?. Eulb knows the crack with the price etc etc but giving up the umbilical is not an option I just need a way to make it pay better...... after operating all over the country and talking to contractors all over the county I’d say where we are is some of the toughest farming/contracting conditions..... very heavy wet land, high rainfall and quite Urban really so we spend a lot of time trundling around and sat at traffic lights ?....... but yet we are on some of the lowest prices around. I’m not here to moan though, I love what I do. Carry on sneaking the hourly rate up and ignore what everyone else is charging is probably going to be the way to go.......either that or spend a fortune and go m3?.
Roughly where abouts are you from Agcon1??

 

[Blue.]

but hes not even covering his costs, let alone making a profit.....so why?....just why would you do it?

To keep his grass customers happy ? As he posted.

 

[RAF]

Must make some serious money at the grass

 

[Mc115reed]

Must make some serious money at the grass

Slurry is the way in the door for all our work tbh! It’s how it starts... we go do there slurry because there other contractor would rather be baling... then we go back in winter.... then they ring up because so and so can’t come mow 1st cut for another week or 2 and before you know it your doing all there work... that’s worth something even if it doesn’t make money... but we charge £90 a hour or by the m3 not sure what our m3 rate is though ... plenty hero’s doing it for £55 and less than £1 m3 but they only ever do it once....