Use and sharing of woodland

[Dadioles]

Hello
I am in the privileged position of having a farmer friend of many years standing who has allowed me free access to a 15 acre wood, more or less to do anything I like. There is no public access to the wood and no right of way. The wood is not maintained in any way and just left to its own devices. Pretty scruffy and plenty of stinging nettles, fallen trees, broken branches etc. But a haven of peace and quiet.
My friend passed away recently and his family are very happy for me to continue as before, as I said, I feel privileged.
I would love to be able to buy a small part of the wood but that is not likely to be possible but there may be some way that I can arrange a more formal agreement.
It would be wonderful to be in a position to "manage" at least part of the wood and I am more than happy to invest both time and money to make the woodland interior a bit more friendly and less hazardous so that my children and grandchildren can play there and enjoy the space and nature in a raw state.
The family who own the wood are open to suggestions but as soon as anything "legal" is involved it gets both expensive and complicated.
If I put time and money into improving the wood I would like some sort of security or guarantee of access in return.
Any advice and ideas gratefully received.....
Thoughts I have had are:
Separate the wood as a legal entity from the main farm, turn it into a "woodland trust" of some sort, can it be "gifted" to a "trust" or similar body that maintain it non-commercially just to preserve it as an unspoiled wildlife area. What are inheritance or death duty implications? would it have to be a "charity"?
Give me some sort of "lease" or "management rights" for say, 10 or 20 years so in return for free access, I can manage the wood and have some control over what happens to it or who can use it.
Ideally sell me an acre or two of the wood with a right of way so that I can get to it.
I need to protect my own interest but not take anything away from the current owner. It would be wonderful if the future of this delightful and yet scrappy wood could be protected and enjoyed.
Thanks for listening.....

 

[Kidds]

Don't try and fix what is not broken.

 

[Dadioles]

Thanks Kidds..... I have a feeling that you are right.
A wise old teacher in my Secondary Modern days once told me that you should never ask a question to which you do not already have the answer.
In that instance I had built a canoe in woodworking and wanted to try it out on the small river that ran through the school grounds. If I had asked for permission it would have been refused because someone would have had to make a decision and would therefore carry some responsibility.
By simply doing it, they could turn a blind eye. Obviously I just got on with it.

 

[Goweresque]

I need to protect my own interest but not take anything away from the current owner.

I'm afraid the bald truth is you have no 'interest' in the wood. You have been given permission to use it and enjoy it for a number of years, and it seems the new owners are happy for that to continue. Be content with what you have, and grateful for what you have had over the years, because sure as eggs are eggs if you start demanding 'rights' the new owners will rescind access immediately, and tell you to sling your hook. They definitely do have interests, and they will look after them if someone who has been done a favour for many years suddenly starts demanding x,y and z.

I'm afraid your situation is a classic of the type that I have noticed repeatedly as I've gotten older - if someone is given a privilege for a long period of time they come to no longer regard what they have as a privilege, something they've been given purely by the good nature of the donor, and instead start to assume the privilege will continue for ever, and if it is withdrawn for whatever reason get very bent out of shape that they've lost something that they are 'entitled' to. I have seen extremely generous people abused and called every name under the sun because for whatever reason they had to withdraw their generosity. Those who had been the recipients for many years abused their benefactors something rotten.

Don't be one of those people. Be grateful for what you have received, and seemingly can continue to receive, and if for any reason your access to the wood is removed, thank the owners for their generosity over the years and walk away without malice.

 

[Treemover]

I dont really understand what your expectations are?

If I owned the woods but you came to me, looking to 'improve' it; I would want some written agreement that I still own it and control it. Essentially you are looking to do something with something you do not own, or the seller will not sell. Find something you can buy, if not, then find something that benefits you both on the woodland in question.

 

[Ribble]

My suggestion would be to forget about asking currently freindly people to enter into any complicated legal arrangements and just offer to become their tenant for a fixed 10 years, at a very low rent. All this stuff about trusts etc is just overcomplicated and potentially alarming to the people currently being very nice to you anyway.

If you explain that the decade lease is just so that you can commit to improving it, and spending money turning it beautiful, I'm sure they'd be delighted.

If you go in asking for them to see lawyers and sign the land off to a trust, or sell you a chunk, they might just decide not to be so friendly anymore.

Also, as for spending money on improving it, I'd suggest instead getting some pigs and sheep to eat all the scrub and sprouts and turn it into a park for you. They don't need any wages, or petrol.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Sounds like utter nonsense to me. If it was me who had been allowed access, I would hope a bit of tidying up of the place and whatever would encourage the owner(s) to continue allowing me access. I would not be seeking any kind of legalese agreement nor anything involving money or rent or lease or any of the above.

People are not going to sign anything over or let you control it. Why should they? It's as simple as that.

 

[Dadioles]

Wow....
I found this forum by chance and am completely blown away by the advice and common sense that you have gone to the trouble of giving me in just a few hours.
Thank you very much indeed.
It is quite easy to let my mind wander a bit and imagine situations that are unrealistic. One sentence by Goweresque:

"...... if someone is given a privilege for a long period of time they come to no longer regard what they have as a privilege, something they've been given purely by the good nature of the donor, and instead start to assume the privilege will continue for ever,....."

That really "hit home" (a suitable cricked analogy? - smile) and was a "wake up" call that probably I needed.

I have been able to treat the wood as if it were my own for about 35 years and my children (and I of course) benefited enormously from the freedom of being able to roam around the entire farm. They are better human beings as a result. Everyone benefited, I helped with computing and administration (free of charge), and kept the rabbits down with a bit of rough shooting, took out a few bad trees from the wood and had a source of firewood.

Now I am in my twilight years and have a couple of young grandchildren and it would be nice to extend that privilege, ideally by purchasing a bit of that woodland. BUT.... all the points you made above do apply.....

I have taken very seriously all the comments made and you have no idea how helpful they have been, if only to bring me down to earth, a reality check.
The "Tenancy" idea is not something I had considered and I shall play with that idea.

When I next share a pint or two with the owners I shall see what is possible.

Best wishes to all.

 

[renewablejohn]

A simple share farming agreement is all you require. I use them on a regular basis with farmers who cannot be bothered to maintain there woodland themselves but quite prepared to allow others to maintain it so long as it does not cost them any money.

 

[lim x]

I'd say just maintain the status quo you already enjoy and mention nothing of a tenancy in case it upsets the apple cart, particularly as you all get along quite nicely.
Go have a pint and say nowt.