we are considering introducing sugar beet into our AD feedstock- we currently feed about 70% maize silage and 30% rye. SB will help with dry matter content. However SB is very acidic and I don't want to put it in a clamp. I would much rather chop it and put it in a lagoon and feed the plant from the lagoon from May to September. We would like to feed about 40,000 tonnes of SB per year so that means putting around 17,000 tonnes into a lagoon. Has anyone done this. it seems common in Germany. I just worry about smell and loss of gas yield
Using sugar beet in AD from a Lagoon
- Thread starter Jim Pace
- Start date
Digester Man
Member
Could you not chop and clamp it along with the maize?
- Location
- Essex
Jim,
I have been on a study tour to see this in Germany and would be happy to help more.
Will
[email protected]
I have been on a study tour to see this in Germany and would be happy to help more.
Will
[email protected]
Attachments
- Location
- Cumbria
Jim, that's a monstrous amount of beet, I assume for multiple plants ?
Whichever way you look at beet it is energy, labour and machinery intensive.
However, it is a good viable alternative to maize, and offers a bigger window for harvest/storage etc. The cost comparison between maize and beet per m3/CH4/hectare is negligible, falling slightly in favour of beet (if managed well)
The issue over ph is important if clamped, however not insurmountable.
With the volumes you are considering, I'm afraid this is a number crunching exercise. As you know both clamping and storing in a lagoon is common, which is the best solution ? - It all depends who is telling the story.
One thing is for sure, whichever way you go, there will be some pain (and paying) -enjoy
Whichever way you look at beet it is energy, labour and machinery intensive.
However, it is a good viable alternative to maize, and offers a bigger window for harvest/storage etc. The cost comparison between maize and beet per m3/CH4/hectare is negligible, falling slightly in favour of beet (if managed well)
The issue over ph is important if clamped, however not insurmountable.
With the volumes you are considering, I'm afraid this is a number crunching exercise. As you know both clamping and storing in a lagoon is common, which is the best solution ? - It all depends who is telling the story.
One thing is for sure, whichever way you go, there will be some pain (and paying) -enjoy
many thanks the silent one, yes two plants. We will not plant any beet until next spring, but we are keen to spread our crop mix/risk. We are well under way with this seasons maize planting, but conditions are very dry even for our far south east corner. Another crop is what we really want. KWS are being very helpful and we hope to get a visit out to Germany next month to have a look at some beet lagoons, we just worry about gas losses in the lagoon. All our discussions and site visits point to big capacity beet cleaners and washers and choppers. Capex is quite scary! The only other feedstock that seems to be on the radar is straw, but that is not without its problems and the technology to make it accessible to the AD process is fairly new. I would rather wait until others have proved it works. Perhaps we might bales some straw this harvest, but it is a bit of a risk. Our other project is to mitigate digestate spreading. We have just installed two digestate processing plants from Germany that take our separated digestate, separates it again and then through a vacuum evaporator removes around 15,000 tonnes of water per plant and leave us with a concentrated digestate and a liquid fertiliser. It's too early to know how well this works, but it should mean that we can spread our digestate only in the spring, all being well.
- Location
- Cumbria
You have clearly thought it through. I think we are all watching to see how the Economizer performs, I think there maybe some environmental challenges, however if it does what is says on the tin, it will open up a whole new World for AD - maybe....
As with anything new, it's all about the funding, and unless someone is willing to give strong performance guarantees and warranties initially, it may be tough at the start.
One of the best ways to confirm which route to take with your beet is to visit other reference plants, you must make a decision that suits your needs.
I would cost in a tank clean out every 3 years whichever route you take, whether or not your visit convinces you differently.
As with anything new, it's all about the funding, and unless someone is willing to give strong performance guarantees and warranties initially, it may be tough at the start.
One of the best ways to confirm which route to take with your beet is to visit other reference plants, you must make a decision that suits your needs.
I would cost in a tank clean out every 3 years whichever route you take, whether or not your visit convinces you differently.
young wilf
New Member
Jim - we use a lot of beet in our plant and have had most success with layering washed and destoned WHOLE beet with maize (and or Hybrid rye) in the clamp. We just reclamp maize/HR from a clamp next door. You get no heating, minimise effluent run off as not chopped and you can get up to 70+% beet in the clamp. Works very well. Not sure how the forum works regarding private messaging? If you can get me your mobile I would happily explain what we do. Went to see lagoon beet in Germany some years ago - major losses can be expected - 30-40%.
- Location
- Cumbria
Sounds interesting, how did your plant perform ?
What is ' a lot of beet '
How stable was the ph, and at what level.
The maize would act as a means of sealing from O2 and heating-up.
How much cost per ton to de-stone and wash ?
Rather than make a mobile call, please share on here, we would all benefit.
young wilf
New Member
Well.
6000t grown, clamped 1600t with about 650t maize last year.
Ph between maize and beet in proportion.
Exactly. It was frosty when we did it and sheets held the frost same as adjacent maize clamped a year earlier.
We hire washer/destoner and ctm cleaner out and it typically costs people between £2 and £4/t.
6000t grown, clamped 1600t with about 650t maize last year.
Ph between maize and beet in proportion.
Exactly. It was frosty when we did it and sheets held the frost same as adjacent maize clamped a year earlier.
We hire washer/destoner and ctm cleaner out and it typically costs people between £2 and £4/t.
interesting thought using pressed fibre to seal clamps-
does a strong wind blow it at all? we are in a very high wind area
could it be seeded with say some wheat seed to knit it together?
I recon sheet, sheeting and unsheeting and messing around with the materials costs us £1.00T and I doubt that on a 30000T clamp there is 1000T of waste.... and even at that there is gas in the waste so iv been contemplating not covering our 45000t rye clamp at all.
how many are brave enough?
the rye clamp was open for weeks on end as we layered and layered onto it and even on the lower shoulders there is next to zero waste.
no additive, no fancy compaction, no fancy sheeting and the waste is pretty much zero.
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anyone had an issue with rats in the rye? not seen one yet but strikes me that they could get into it
does a strong wind blow it at all? we are in a very high wind area
could it be seeded with say some wheat seed to knit it together?
I recon sheet, sheeting and unsheeting and messing around with the materials costs us £1.00T and I doubt that on a 30000T clamp there is 1000T of waste.... and even at that there is gas in the waste so iv been contemplating not covering our 45000t rye clamp at all.
how many are brave enough?
the rye clamp was open for weeks on end as we layered and layered onto it and even on the lower shoulders there is next to zero waste.
no additive, no fancy compaction, no fancy sheeting and the waste is pretty much zero.
--
anyone had an issue with rats in the rye? not seen one yet but strikes me that they could get into it
We have seeded with an aggressive Italian rye grass with good success. We separate with a Carrier so the separated digestate is damp when first moved and stays in situ. The idea came from Canada where I was told they seeded maize clamps we rye grass to save cost of plastic sheet. We use all the 'cover' as feedstock.
- Location
- North Norfolk
When our digester is running too low on solids, we feed back the separated solids. It seems once it has been exposed to the air, it can then break down further as we have run for 9 months without taking any solids away at all, so you can get some value from the clamp top as well.
I would doubt the fibre here would have further gas yield in it but maybe I'm wrong
we have no low dm feedstocks so we are separating to keep dm down anyway so I doubt that putting fibre back in will offer us anything- but may be wrong
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so the question then is whether its worth putting the fibre on to protect the top rye layer or whether it best to simply seed it when completing the clamp and then let the top 200mm rot
the cost and bother of sheeting a monster pit is certainly something that needs scrutiny as in % terms the losses are small.
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re putting the fibre on, I trust that you spread it app 300mm think and roll it in with the tyres?
we have no low dm feedstocks so we are separating to keep dm down anyway so I doubt that putting fibre back in will offer us anything- but may be wrong
--
so the question then is whether its worth putting the fibre on to protect the top rye layer or whether it best to simply seed it when completing the clamp and then let the top 200mm rot
the cost and bother of sheeting a monster pit is certainly something that needs scrutiny as in % terms the losses are small.
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re putting the fibre on, I trust that you spread it app 300mm think and roll it in with the tyres?
- Location
- Cumbria
Interesting discussion, I know some who have tried this with, erm, poor results. But that is not to say it is not a alternative solution.
It has always surprised me that over all the years no-one has come up with a better solution than a plastic sheet.
Going way back, some used a ' wet-plug ' where top material was soaked and used as a sealer, off-course not a great success, but the wheel of time turns !
It has always surprised me that over all the years no-one has come up with a better solution than a plastic sheet.
Going way back, some used a ' wet-plug ' where top material was soaked and used as a sealer, off-course not a great success, but the wheel of time turns !
don't think that its a great idea on small clamps or grass as the waste % is high but on monster rye pits the % is tiny
the bigger the pit the harder and more costly it is to sheet
this year we had to sheet 150m x 60m clamp in one go and its the labour resource needed when the sun is splitting the sky that's the issue
this labour should be off doing other tasks that make money
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I think that I will be trying at least 30m x 25m with fibre on top this year to see how we get on. certainly the rye underneath will be fine, I have no doubts about that- whether its the overall answer is another matter
the bigger the pit the harder and more costly it is to sheet
this year we had to sheet 150m x 60m clamp in one go and its the labour resource needed when the sun is splitting the sky that's the issue
this labour should be off doing other tasks that make money
--
I think that I will be trying at least 30m x 25m with fibre on top this year to see how we get on. certainly the rye underneath will be fine, I have no doubts about that- whether its the overall answer is another matter
Exfarmer
Member
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds
Seems amazing to me that anyone can contemplate losing such a huge quantity of material by not covering the pit.
In the 1960's many products were trialled some more succesful than others. Lime was good but would not recomend feeding that into the digester.
Soil was the traditional but again not suiable. OK in the days when it was handballed out.
However FYM was regularly used succesfully and for beef cattle refeeding it posed little problem.
I would have thought the availablity of pressed fibre and or other forms of fym possibly further topped with digestate would be a lot better than losing probably 10% of your pit.
In the 1960's many products were trialled some more succesful than others. Lime was good but would not recomend feeding that into the digester.
Soil was the traditional but again not suiable. OK in the days when it was handballed out.
However FYM was regularly used succesfully and for beef cattle refeeding it posed little problem.
I would have thought the availablity of pressed fibre and or other forms of fym possibly further topped with digestate would be a lot better than losing probably 10% of your pit.
exfarmer
understand your logic but on a 10m high clamp 10% would mean the top 1m being waste
our experience so far is that only about 200-250mm of rye spoils if left totally uncovered, this would be much reduced with fibre cover and even this 200-250mm layer still has gas yield
fed in along with the rest of the crop below on a daily basis it makes no difference to feeding out
understand your logic but on a 10m high clamp 10% would mean the top 1m being waste
our experience so far is that only about 200-250mm of rye spoils if left totally uncovered, this would be much reduced with fibre cover and even this 200-250mm layer still has gas yield
fed in along with the rest of the crop below on a daily basis it makes no difference to feeding out