Valtra vs Massey Vs Fendt

[daveydiesel1]

Not likely. Do you measure this by how long it takes before a re-fuelling stop is needed?

No we had a 6499 and if not workin its arse of it wasnt hard on fuel by any measure

 

[Zetor]

on a different brand
a neighbour has a venerei loader fitted with a 4 cyl perkins engine
made in japan
are they common?

Yeah very common, little Japanese Perkins are found in lots of small machines such as wiedermann, Volvo, Jcb etc

 

[Cowabunga]

No we had a 6499 and if not workin its arse of it wasnt hard on fuel by any measure

They do not have a four cylinder with anything like that power or potential actual fuel consumption.

 

[Farma Parma]

Yeah that's not cool all engines should be made in Finland! I don't care double the factory size if needs be!
Isn't the 1050 fendt got a cat engine possibly?

Its a Man & rumor i heard is more of the ranges will switch to them yet.

 

[Cowabunga]

Yeah very common, little Japanese Perkins are found in lots of small machines such as wiedermann, Volvo, Jcb etc

The engines are an ISM design and there has been a joint venture company, Perkins-Shibaura, that has been building these engines on three continents for many years.

 

[Farma Parma]

Mike Mitchell expecting any tractor to start cold from -30°C is straight up stupid. The blame was with the webasto's pre heating system that kept shutting off.
If any tractor can stand the cold surely it's Valtra...

His 1050 MAN engine started much easier mind! it wasnt quite as cold possibly.
I couldnt leave machines out in them temps tho

 

[BRB John]

His 1050 MAN engine started much easier mind! it wasnt quite as cold possibly.
I couldnt leave machines out in them temps tho

I think that was just down to it being a much bigger engine rather than any specific design feature.
Thankfully I'm not in a situation where I have to but I know for sure if I had to do anything in -30 I would be seriously asking what the hell I was doing and how to get back in front of the fire as soon as possible .

 

[tractor_lover]

Its a Man & rumor i heard is more of the ranges will switch to them yet.

The Rumors are about the Man on the new 700 up to 300 hp, but there is talk of Sisu too.

 

[daveydiesel1]

Iv heard of different deutz engines needin fixed in fendt tractors, in fact all the fendts local with deutz engines has needed big money spent on them but never once heard of a deutz tractor needin engines fixed. Just for reference theres alot more deutz tractors within 5 mile radius of me includin a contractor that keeps them til high hours. Why would this be? Does deutz have better cooling package?

 

[BRB John]

Iv heard of different deutz engines needin fixed in fendt tractors, in fact all the fendts local with deutz engines has needed big money spent on them but never once heard of a deutz tractor needin engines fixed. Just for reference theres alot more deutz tractors within 5 mile radius of me includin a contractor that keeps them til high hours. Why would this be? Does deutz have better cooling package?

I suspect Deutz don't bother optimising their engines cause they suck compared to fendt in every profi test comparison I've seen. So that might make them more "reliable" where Fendts are heavily optimised which probably shortens lifespan but saves fuel.
Another reason maybe the quality of the dealers in your area if the Deutz dealer is really good at catching problems at services then that would help keep them running significantly longer.

 

[jpd]

at least they re not dissing deere






yet

 

[Chae1]

I suspect Deutz don't bother optimising their engines cause they suck compared to fendt in every profi test comparison I've seen. So that might make them more "reliable" where Fendts are heavily optimised which probably shortens lifespan but saves fuel.
Another reason maybe the quality of the dealers in your area if the Deutz dealer is really good at catching problems at services then that would help keep them running significantly longer.

If you class optimising them as failing at 3k hours!

 

[Bossfarmer]

So do we conclude valtra has the worst/thirstiest engine?

 

[gone]

Having changed from a Deutz to a Valtra with the sisu engine, it's bloody obvious why fender want to stick with the German motor.....

..... In comparison, the Sisu drinks worse than a politicians work group during lockdown

No way will fender be able to keep the marketing claim that their tractors are so efficient, they'll generate diesel

Unless they fit the CNH block instead

So do we conclude valtra has the worst/thirstiest engine?

I also changed from a very light on diesel Deutz 6160.4 to a Sisu/Agco Power engined MF6718S, and while the Sisu engine is using a good bit more fuel, it is great to have a tractor engine that doesn't stall every time the revs drop below 1,500rpm. The like for like tests I did between the 2 tractors, all road haulage, the MF used 4-5% more total diesel+adblue than the Deutz, on lighter work the 180hp MF is probably even more thirsty than the 160hp Deutz.
I am happy to pay for the extra 7% extra fuel, the extra low end torque is amazing, and I had a very bad run with reliability with the last 2 Deutz tractors, the M420 I had before the 6160.4 was an alcoholic.

 

[dod1e]

Always amazes me how many people still judge tractor fuel economy by how long a tank of fuel lasts. I once worked for someone who didnt upgrade his JD 8300 for a new 8520T because it was too hard on diesel, needing filled up twice a day.

The 230hp 8300 had a 630 litre tank (12+ hours hard work) while the 325hp 8520 T only had around 580 litres (9 hours hard work.........If manufacturers caught on to this they could make their tractors seem frugal to many by fitting a large tank.

Not saying this is what's at play here, but need to make sure apples are compared to apples, i.e. litres of fuel used per unit work done.

Would be interested to know if the 4cyl v 6cyl versions of the same tractor compared above have the same sized tanks.......

 

[Cowabunga]

Always amazes me how many people still judge tractor fuel economy by how long a tank of fuel lasts. I once worked for someone who didnt upgrade his JD 8300 for a new 8520T because it was too hard on diesel, needing filled up twice a day.

The 230hp 8300 had a 630 litre tank (12+ hours hard work) while the 325hp 8520 T only had around 580 litres (9 hours hard work.........If manufacturers caught on to this they could make their tractors seem frugal to many by fitting a large tank.

Not saying this is what's at play here, but need to make sure apples are compared to apples, i.e. litres of fuel used per unit work done.

Would be interested to know if the 4cyl v 6cyl versions of the same tractor compared above have the same sized tanks.......

I agree and have been banging on about this for years. No, the four cylinder tractors tend to have about a third less tank capacity and it tends to be that the higher power four cylinders use roughly the same tank as the least powerful in the same immediate family while the equivalent six cylinder will be the least powerful, yet have the same tank as tractors at least two power levels above it.

Obviously this is not a hard and fast rule but for most brands, such as MF, CNH and Deere, it is safe to assume that this is still the case until a specific anomaly is pointed out. Fuel consumption should certainly NOT be measured by how long it takes to empty the tank. It should be measured in terms of specific fuel consumption per unit of work done. If the engine in isolation is being measured, which is helpful but not the full picture, then official fuel consumption figures as measured by traditional testing bodies are the way to go, especially when they are OECD/EU tests that measure under different revs and loads. Profi tests make for good comparisons also.

 

[daveydiesel1]

I suspect Deutz don't bother optimising their engines cause they suck compared to fendt in every profi test comparison I've seen. So that might make them more "reliable" where Fendts are heavily optimised which probably shortens lifespan but saves fuel.
Another reason maybe the quality of the dealers in your area if the Deutz dealer is really good at catching problems at services then that would help keep them running significantly longer.

Ye wouldnt class the deutz dealer as anythin above average, my opinion is theres alot better out there, plus alot of the deutz tractors around here wouldnt be dealer serviced, contractor in question has a range of 6pot deutz around 150-200hp mark and to watch there punchin well above thier weight and gettin plenty of graft but never hear of trouble

 

[seedman stains]

MF6470 4 cyl in standard form has a tiny tank compared to a 6465 6 cyl

 

[Cowabunga]

MF6470 4 cyl in standard form has a tiny tank compared to a 6465 6 cyl

The tier2 6470 without the optional auxiliary tank, which itself is far too small, has a ridiculously small tank for its power output, while the Perkins 1100 series in that tune was indeed somewhat thirsty by any standards. As indeed are the tier3 common-rail Perkins. This may partly have been why almost all mainstream brands of farm machinery made an effort to stop using Perkins engines.

 

[Daniel]

I agree and have been banging on about this for years. No, the four cylinder tractors tend to have about a third less tank capacity and it tends to be that the higher power four cylinders use roughly the same tank as the least powerful in the same immediate family while the equivalent six cylinder will be the least powerful, yet have the same tank as tractors at least two power levels above it.

Obviously this is not a hard and fast rule but for most brands, such as MF, CNH and Deere, it is safe to assume that this is still the case until a specific anomaly is pointed out. Fuel consumption should certainly NOT be measured by how long it takes to empty the tank. It should be measured in terms of specific fuel consumption per unit of work done. If the engine in isolation is being measured, which is helpful but not the full picture, then official fuel consumption figures as measured by traditional testing bodies are the way to go, especially when they are OECD/EU tests that measure under different revs and loads. Profi tests make for good comparisons also.

Our Maxxum 130 cvx could theoretically empty it’s tank in just over 5 hours at full boost!