Various PD and Flood Plain questions

[Salop_Will]

Hi,
New to this forum and also farming.
I have inherited some land which I am trying to make as useful as possible but seem to be restricted by everything possible at the moment :-(

The land is a little over 10 acres of land with an open fronted barn.
Barn is a few metres away from the road and access off the road,.
Problems : The barn and 40% of the land is within a flood zone (flood zone 3) and spends several months of the year with a large volume of water covering it due to poor drainage from the nearby main river and culverts which pass through the land of private dwellings. Typically the area of land that floods is adjacent to the road and is the only access in.
Looking at my options and permitted developments:
1. Is there anything stopping me from putting doors on the open barn and securing it? would this require planning if it remains as agricultural?
2. As the land is not over 5 hectares, can I erect a new dwelling under PD on the dry part of the land at all?
3. Does anybody know if I can put an access road across the flood zone to access the dry part of the land within permitted development rights. I also cannot find if I would have to apply for a permit with the environment agency or if a permit would exist.
The land is difficult to deal with at the best of times and everything has to be ATV powered because anything heavier will dig in to the field so this is adding on to my costs.
I am trying to do everything legally and with as little cost as possible as the land generates me no income and I am paying out to maintain it all the time. Would be nice to be able to get something out of it.
Really doesn't help that there are a lot of people locally that report us every time we start doing something.
Thanks for any input you might have.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I hope I can be of assistance here and I'll answer your points in turn;
1. You do not need permission to make alterations to the building providing it does not materially affect the overall dimensions of the building and that the alterations are reasonably necessary for agriculture. If you are on Article 2(3) land such as AONB or National Park you will need permission.
2. There are no PD rights to construct a dwelling on agricultural land. You would need full planning permission.
3. I would suggest you would need planning permission and Environmental Agency consent of you are altering the land levels to create the track. Any part of the track that falls within 25m of a highway would need planning permission anyway.

 

[Salop_Will]

I hope I can be of assistance here and I'll answer your points in turn;
1. You do not need permission to make alterations to the building providing it does not materially affect the overall dimensions of the building and that the alterations are reasonably necessary for agriculture. If you are on Article 2(3) land such as AONB or National Park you will need permission.
2. There are no PD rights to construct a dwelling on agricultural land. You would need full planning permission.
3. I would suggest you would need planning permission and Environmental Agency consent of you are altering the land levels to create the track. Any part of the track that falls within 25m of a highway would need planning permission anyway.

Thanks for the advice George.
Question 2 I made a mistake. I didn't mean dwelling, I meant agricultural building. my mistake. eg. partly for lifestock, feed and also the small implements.
Also, re. 1. I am assuming that to improve access from the gateway to the front of the barn, including the front apron as such would need the same as suggested in your answer to 3.
Ridiculous amount of hoops to jump through all the time.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Thanks for the advice George.
Question 2 I made a mistake. I didn't mean dwelling, I meant agricultural building. my mistake. eg. partly for lifestock, feed and also the small implements.
Also, re. 1. I am assuming that to improve access from the gateway to the front of the barn, including the front apron as such would need the same as suggested in your answer to 3.
Ridiculous amount of hoops to jump through all the time.

I hoped you meant barn not dwelling!

As you are under 5Ha you would need planning permission for a barn as PD rights under Class 6 (b) only allow for alterations and minor extensions to existing structures, there is no provision for new structures.
My suggestion would be to submit one application for all the elements mentioned as you will need a flood risk assessment and it can all be addressed in one rather than getting three FRA's done and paying three application fees.
You will need to provide justification as to why you need that extent of buildings on 10ac so be expected to itemise the equipment stored and provide details of the use of the land etc. If you are using the barns for non-agricultural uses, storing non-agricultural items or storing machinery used on other holdings then you may need to pay the full planning application fee not the reduced fee afforded to agriculture.

 

[Salop_Will]

I hoped you meant barn not dwelling!

As you are under 5Ha you would need planning permission for a barn as PD rights under Class 6 (b) only allow for alterations and minor extensions to existing structures, there is no provision for new structures.
My suggestion would be to submit one application for all the elements mentioned as you will need a flood risk assessment and it can all be addressed in one rather than getting three FRA's done and paying three application fees.
You will need to provide justification as to why you need that extent of buildings on 10ac so be expected to itemise the equipment stored and provide details of the use of the land etc. If you are using the barns for non-agricultural uses, storing non-agricultural items or storing machinery used on other holdings then you may need to pay the full planning application fee not the reduced fee afforded to agriculture.

Great, thanks for your help.
I am currently thinking of going down the route of just enclosing the barn in its current form to use as storage.
I have approx 20 - 30 tons of rubble on the same site that needs crushing which I cannot use on the land without a permit, if I have it taken away to a relatives farm a few miles away I can guarantee that someone will report us for waste disposal, carrying etc and disposing of it with skips or in another form would not be a viable option for my pocket.
I inherited the rubble with the land unfortunately.
Most cost effective option is to take up the bricks on the barn floor once its enclosed, crush the stone and raise the inside of the barn and then relay the bricks. I cannot see that this would require any additional permits?
The barn is not very deep on the open fronted side, so thinking of enclosing this side completely and putting access in from the end. I then have a much deeper but narrow barn, rather than shallow but wide which isn't as useful if that makes sense.
Barn is 8.5m x 5.5m at a guess.

 

[Hesstondriver]

i have just put a roadway on land that floods and i did it under PD , local planing office confirmed that it did not need planning and was permited development.

i understand that if it is constructed on top of the ground , using membrane it is temporary structure anyway

 

[Salop_Will]

i have just put a roadway on land that floods and i did it under PD , local planing office confirmed that it did not need planning and was permited development.

i understand that if it is constructed on top of the ground , using membrane it is temporary structure anyway

The other issue I have is the flooding area is Flood Zone 3 which proves a right pain in the a**e. Permits for everything. It prevents the majority of things I want to do. So even with PD rights I expect the EA will want permits for doing an access road.
We dug out an old flower bed from behind our house to put in a retaining wall and then bought in hardcore for filling the wall. The soil from the flower bed was taken down the garden and tipped, all on the same garden, same house... and someone reported us. Turned out the garden area is now within flood zone 3 as EA have updated the flood map and we should have a permit for putting it there. That is why I am always trying to check what we can and cannot do.
The funds are not there to keep paying out for permits, planning etc so I have to keep adapting to make it work in some way.