Wall tie / patress plates for an old barn

[# Robin]

Got an old brick barn with the front wall slowly splaying outwards near a window - the floor joist is slowly coming out of the brickwork so needs fixing.
Builder suggests fit couple of wall ties alongside the joists to hold the front & back wall together then lintel over window inside.

Question - is it normal to run the tierod right across the span or are they just fixed to the joist timbers inside?
I‘ve seen the decorative patress plates on buildings but never looked inside. Anyone got any photos?

cheers

 

[Exfarmer]

I would definitely tie across

 

[# Robin]

Thanks, I’m imagining they’re normally like a 1” bar ?
With an x-shape plate or something on the outer.

Does his suggestion of 30mm bar welded into 40mm box span sound a bit heavy duty? Span is only 15’.

 

[Kidds]

Can measure some here if you like but I think they are less than an inch diameter and span 15' and more with a simple cross on the outside, some have an "S".
What your builder is suggesting sounds way over the top to me but do agree with wall ties along the beam. (I am neither a builder or a structural engineer but have taken a lot of notice of such things)

 

[Pan mixer]

Mate of mine has a tie rod right through his house, all his wall mounted kitchen cabinets had to be fitted around it.

I held up a 20 foot wide shed with 20 mm rod right across at eves level, theaded one end and made a saddle so that I could wind it in a bit to save roof falling in, 4 of them in an 80 foot long block-built (4 inch) shed made all the difference.

 

[# Robin]

Can measure some here if you like but I think they are less than an inch diameter and span 15' and more with a simple cross on the outside, some have an "S".
What your builder is suggesting sounds way over the top to me but do agree with wall ties along the beam. (I am neither a builder or a structural engineer but have taken a lot of notice of such things)

Thanks all, that’s invaluable
I’ll do this - 1” bar going the compete span alongside the joists with an X or S. Have just come across a foundry selling the plates and threaded rod online too.
Thanks again guys

 

[Sharpy]

IIRC 16mm threaded bar is rated for 10t pull. How much pull do you need?

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Mate of mine has a tie rod right through his house, all his wall mounted kitchen cabinets had to be fitted around it.

I held up a 20 foot wide shed with 20 mm rod right across at eves level, theaded one end and made a saddle so that I could wind it in a bit to save roof falling in, 4 of them in an 80 foot long block-built (4 inch) shed made all the difference.

random fact I think is true.

we have some cottages built in 1857 with tie bars front and back.

when they built it they light a fire around the bar and got it very hot so it expanded.

they then screwed on the ends and let it cool slowly, naturally tightening the lot up

clever lot back then!

 

[TheTallGuy]

random fact I think is true.

we have some cottages built in 1857 with tie bars front and back.

when they built it they light a fire around the bar and got it very hot so it expanded.

they then screwed on the ends and let it cool slowly, naturally tightening the lot up

clever lot back then!

Yes that was quite a common trick used to pull walls back in, but there was an art to getting the right amount of shrink. Also had to watch that you didn't over pull one side - an old blacksmith told me the tale of when he did a cottage back when he was an apprentice - his boss badly misjudged things and the rear wall got pulled in past the vertical resulting in a house of cards style collapse!

 

[Henarar]

have seen old plough landsides painted up and used as plates

 

[Cjm]

I did it on a stone cottage once. Cut some 300mm discs out of 20mm plate and used 1” threaded bar I think. Structural engineer was involved and quite happy

 

[vinnie123]

Thanks, I’m imagining they’re normally like a 1” bar ?
With an x-shape plate or something on the outer.

Does his suggestion of 30mm bar welded into 40mm box span sound a bit heavy duty? Span is only 15’.

The 40mm box is probably cheaper than the 30mm solid bar .

 

[Mur Huwcun]

The 40mm box is probably cheaper than the 30mm solid bar .

As a comparison I ordered some 30mm bar last week for a riddle bucket, one supplier was £34 a length, other thankfully was £27!! box I would guess would be £10-18 a length depending on quantity but would be a lot easier to carry up a ladder etc!! Even scaffold type pipe would be strong enough in tension

 

[Lincsman]

have seen old plough landsides painted up and used as plates

I have some on old stables... first thing they found on the scrap heap I guess?

 

[Mur Huwcun]

If it's only in tension you could even use wire rope or a chain!!! A polished and lacquered chain would look good in a barn conversion above a kitchen with some suspended lights etc!!

 

[Mike Roxby.]

With respect of running wall to wall (front to back) I have seen an example of the front wall collapsing, pulling the rear wall with it, so attaching to the joists may be a better idea.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

One of our stables from the early 1960s has a breeze block wall that was leaning out at the front. Eventually either the wall was going to fall over, if the roof didn't drop in first.

We now have cable front to back, holding the walls together, with a tension winder thingy on it.